We watched this video in church on Sunday. Please take a couple of minutes to watch it- it is quite moving:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VikydtiYQ0M
We had a discussion with some friends later about what it all means. Let's face it, the man in the video is likely more obedient to Jesus that most Christians (and I am assuming that he is not a Christian).
Is there any etermal hope for this man?
I know it is so easy to say "only if He accepts Christ as his Saviour." That is the politically correct thing to say in evangelical circles. And of course I believe that is the correct answer, although I am not clear how God would deal with this man on Judgment day.
What do you all think?
TK
What if a Person Obeys Jesus but Doesnt Know Jesus?
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kaufmannphillips
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Re: What if a Person Obeys Jesus but Doesnt Know Jesus?
What does it mean to "accept Christ as Savior"?
What are the essential elements of this, and might the outermost limits of this be?
What are the essential elements of this, and might the outermost limits of this be?
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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"The more something is repeated, the more it becomes an unexamined truth...." (Nicholas Thompson)
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Re: What if a Person Obeys Jesus but Doesnt Know Jesus?
TK,
I once read a book written by a man who lived for two years among a tribe of Pigmies in a remote section of Africa. I wish I could remember the name of the book or the author, because it's a book I would like to own. The Pigmies were but barely exposed to western civilization, and as I recall, they worshipped a variety of gods. What struck me was that even though they hadn't heard the name, "Jesus," and there were some in the tribe who served themselves at others' expense, others consistently did the right thing, even to their own hurt. At the end of his stay with the tribe, the author took one of the 'good guys' with him on a walk-about. Upon stepping out of the jungle and into the wide-open for the first time in his life, the Pigmy was uneasy until, looking out over the expanses before him, he finally relaxed. 'It's the same God," he said, "The same God who made the trees made this." (paraphrase)
I was a new Christian when I read the book. I'd been worrying about the question, "What if there are Pigmies in Africa who never hear the name of Jesus?" As it happened, I was reading the Book of Romans for the first time, then, too. Between that and other passages, it all came together for me: God has written His truth on the hearts of all men; we are responsible for our response to what we've been given. To whom more is given, more is expected; to whom less is given, less is expected.
I once read a book written by a man who lived for two years among a tribe of Pigmies in a remote section of Africa. I wish I could remember the name of the book or the author, because it's a book I would like to own. The Pigmies were but barely exposed to western civilization, and as I recall, they worshipped a variety of gods. What struck me was that even though they hadn't heard the name, "Jesus," and there were some in the tribe who served themselves at others' expense, others consistently did the right thing, even to their own hurt. At the end of his stay with the tribe, the author took one of the 'good guys' with him on a walk-about. Upon stepping out of the jungle and into the wide-open for the first time in his life, the Pigmy was uneasy until, looking out over the expanses before him, he finally relaxed. 'It's the same God," he said, "The same God who made the trees made this." (paraphrase)
I was a new Christian when I read the book. I'd been worrying about the question, "What if there are Pigmies in Africa who never hear the name of Jesus?" As it happened, I was reading the Book of Romans for the first time, then, too. Between that and other passages, it all came together for me: God has written His truth on the hearts of all men; we are responsible for our response to what we've been given. To whom more is given, more is expected; to whom less is given, less is expected.
Last edited by Joan on Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What if a Person Obeys Jesus but Doesnt Know Jesus?
Hi TK
It puzzles me why the Beatitudes seem to be left out of the equation when evangelical Christians talk about who will be saved and who not, effectively placing huge caveats on the parts of Matthew 5 verses 3 to 10. For such, verse 7, for example, would read:
"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain temporal but not necessarily eternal mercy".
If such people are not ultimately saved, then they are far from blessed.
But my brain is even more pea-sized than you say yours is (!) though you did ask for people`s opinions!
It puzzles me why the Beatitudes seem to be left out of the equation when evangelical Christians talk about who will be saved and who not, effectively placing huge caveats on the parts of Matthew 5 verses 3 to 10. For such, verse 7, for example, would read:
"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain temporal but not necessarily eternal mercy".
If such people are not ultimately saved, then they are far from blessed.
But my brain is even more pea-sized than you say yours is (!) though you did ask for people`s opinions!
Re: What if a Person Obeys Jesus but Doesnt Know Jesus?
I've always thought the following scripture applied to this. The context is false prophets, but seems to me it might be applicable... what do you guys think?
Re: What if a Person Obeys Jesus but Doesnt Know Jesus?
The man has certainly done wonderful things. But let us assume that he has heard the story of Jesus from the many missionaries in India, even second hand, and has rejected the gospel. What say you then?
Re: What if a Person Obeys Jesus but Doesnt Know Jesus?
Which "gospel"? There are so many different versions of "the gospel" today that it is no wonder that so many are confused. There is only one true gospel; all others ought to be rejected ---- yes, including that which is promulgated by many "missionaries".
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: What if a Person Obeys Jesus but Doesnt Know Jesus?
In one of C.S. Lewis's "Narnian Chronicles", a Calormene ends up in Aslan's Country. He is surprised. He declares that he has served Tash all his life. What is he doing in Aslan's Country? When he appears before Aslan, Aslan says to him, "All of your service to Tash, I took as service to me."
I know the Narnian Chronicles are the Narnian Chronicles, and not the Bible. Nevertheless, I wonder if there will not be many surprises some day, when we find out who will received by God, and who will be sent away.
I know the Narnian Chronicles are the Narnian Chronicles, and not the Bible. Nevertheless, I wonder if there will not be many surprises some day, when we find out who will received by God, and who will be sent away.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: What if a Person Obeys Jesus but Doesnt Know Jesus?
That was one of my favorite moments in the Narnia series!
Re: What if a Person Obeys Jesus but Doesnt Know Jesus?
Homer wrote:
I guess there may be some room in interpreting exactly what that means... I mean we know that Jesus is the only "conduit." The Bible is clear. The question, as KP puts it, is exactly what this means as a practical matter-- especially in tough cases like the one in the video.
TK
and the Bible says:The man has certainly done wonderful things. But let us assume that he has heard the story of Jesus from the many missionaries in India, even second hand, and has rejected the gospel. What say you then?
And of course Jesus said that "no man comes to the Father except by me."Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.. Acts 4:12
I guess there may be some room in interpreting exactly what that means... I mean we know that Jesus is the only "conduit." The Bible is clear. The question, as KP puts it, is exactly what this means as a practical matter-- especially in tough cases like the one in the video.
TK