What if a Person Obeys Jesus but Doesnt Know Jesus?

[steve7150]

I guess there may be some room in interpreting exactly what that means... I mean we know that Jesus is the only "conduit." The Bible is clear. The question, as KP puts it, is exactly what this means as a practical matter-- especially in tough cases like the one in the video.



Jesus is conduit but also our judge as he was given all authority. So after he told us to be merciful and turn the other cheek and love our enemies , how will he judge everyone , Does he have the descretion to save folks who never heard of him as part of the judgment process . Can the judgment process include a restoration process? It can if He wants it to because He has all authority and he told us to reconcile with our brother.
He did say all things are possible with God.

[RICHinCHRIST]

I guess there may be some room in interpreting exactly what that means... I mean we know that Jesus is the only "conduit." The Bible is clear. The question, as KP puts it, is exactly what this means as a practical matter-- especially in tough cases like the one in the video.
TK

Rob Bell actually covered this topic in his latest book on heaven and hell. He mentioned that following Jesus is a way of life more than solely an intellectual recognition of facts. He argued that there are people who are outside of the faith who yet respond to the way of Christ more acceptably than those in the faith itself. He mentioned that God had given them a certain amount of light to respond to, and if they follow the way of mercy, forgiveness, acceptance, and love then they are walking in the light of Christ and very well could be saved.

I tend to agree that walking in the way of Christ is much more convincing to me of someone's salvation rather than someone being able to repeat the words of a creed and say they believe that Jesus is the son of God and that He rose from the dead. Anyone can say those words, but can live entirely opposite to the way of Christ! After all, Jesus is THE WAY (John 14:6), so when we see people who genuinely reflect the life of Christ, they must have more of a connection to Christ than we might realize.

After all:


If someone keeps the commandments of Christ but doesn't know or understand the doctrines of Christianity, is it possible that they are saved too? I don't see why God would reject them considering how gracious He is.

[TK]

Thanks Rich- I really like your response- very well said.

I never really thought of Jesus being the WAY in the terms you put it- but it is obviously true. The Book of Acts talks about followers of the WAY- which of course can mean a person(Jesus), but can also mean a "path."

TK

[mattrose]

I believe it is possible to be saved by a person w/o even knowing basic facts about that person. No one will be saved by some other means than Jesus Christ, but perhaps many will be saved by Jesus Christ without knowing it. If this is true, it will almost certainly be b/c they responded to the truth that they did know and followed Jesus in the limited sense in which they could.

Even though I find the question of the un-evangelized (or mis-evangelized) interesting and a good conversation piece, I have never had any worries that the Lord will do exactly the right thing in every individual case. If they are welcomed into His presence or separated from it, I trust such will be done rightly. If the latter, which makes me upset, then it is I who need a change in perspective.

[darinhouston]

Perhaps a slightly different spin on this -- for the sake of the argument, let's merely assume that this man could be "saved" based on his following the "lighted path." Now, let's assume a few years go by and he's been following this path faithfully with Joy and all that... now, someone says "hey, man, have you heard about Jesus?" and continues to tell him the good news, and the man says "that man, Jesus, sounds pretty cool, and his path is indeed the path I've followed in my life and will continue to do, but raised from the dead? that's crazy, man. And God of the universe and judge of our souls at the end of days? Dude, I just can't go there with you -- but righteous path, indeed!" and continues to live to serve and heal others. What then?

Was he once saved, and now no longer? With Paul, the law slayed him once he knew of it, but this man seems to be following the law of Jesus, but would not (in my hypothetical) be responding favorably to the gospel message, itself. Would rejection of the gospel but the following of Jesus and His teachings result in salvation? Clearly, his works aren't what would save him, but we're seeing in the video more than just works -- the man seems to have a genuinely loving heart towards these people. But, is that really enough to save him? In a sense, he's experiencing some of the fruits that come to a believer and showing the general truths of proverbs and the beattitudes, but is he truly saved in any real sense?

[Homer]

Darin and Matt have summed up my thoughts perfectly. But what is lacking in this discussion is motive. We can not know whether the man is motivated by karma:

Karma is not fate, for humans act with free will creating their own destiny. According to the Vedas, if one sows goodness, one will reap goodness; if one sows evil, one will reap evil. Karma refers to the totality of our actions and their concomitant reactions in this and previous lives, all of which determines our future. The conquest of karma lies in intelligent action and dispassionate response.

[Homer]

Paidion wrote:

Which "gospel"? There are so many different versions of "the gospel" today that it is no wonder that so many are confused. There is only one true gospel; all others ought to be rejected ---- yes, including that which is promulgated by many "missionaries".

Paul seemed to take note of a "different gospel" or two in his own day, of which he warned in Galatians 1:6-7. John also in his epistles, so there is nothing new under the sun as someone has said. We even hear different gospels right here on this forum and some have become so confused they do not know what to believe.

For sake of discussion, let's just say the man was presented with the true gospel, as in Romans 10:8-13.

[TK]

Matt wrote:

I have never had any worries that the Lord will do exactly the right thing in every individual case.

I certainly agree. I once heard Pastor Erwin Lutzer counsel a lady on a radio call in program whose son had been killed in miltarty action; she was grieving because she was not sure of his status with the Lord. He said something similar to what Matt said, and stressed that she should be at peace because there was no better place for her son to be than in God's hands.

TK

[kaufmannphillips]

RICHinCHRIST wrote:
After all, Jesus is THE WAY (John 14:6), so when we see people who genuinely reflect the life of Christ, they must have more of a connection to Christ than we might realize.

John also posits Jesus as the Logos. Given parallels in ancient thought, we may speculate about how John's Logos christology might relate to the sort of thinking behind John 14:6.

[steve7150]

"that man, Jesus, sounds pretty cool, and his path is indeed the path I've followed in my life and will continue to do, but raised from the dead? that's crazy, man. And God of the universe and judge of our souls at the end of days? Dude, I just can't go there with you -- but righteous path, indeed!" and continues





In a sense this misunderstanding of doctrine could be about a devout JW or Mormon who may even know scripture and have good morals and even have good motivation but not believe Jesus is divine or that he was physically raised from the dead.
Where does he stand? Eternal hell for him? Annhilation for him? Restoration after death for him?