What if a Person Obeys Jesus but Doesnt Know Jesus?

[Homer]

Abraham's offering of Isaac was an act of faith: it had the meaning of faith. He trusted God, that He could raise the dead.
Faith+works is a Catholic idea, and even they will attempt to deny it.

[brody196]

The scriptures are clear, faith in Jesus is the only way.

But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.(Hebrews 11:6)

There are debatable issues in the body of Christ, but I don't think this is something we can budge on.

If we preach any other name, whether it be the name of good works, karma, etc.., we are speaking with an authority not granted to us.

[Paidion]

The year I attended Bible school, I learned an interesting story about the ancient Karens (who lived in Burma, or what is now "Myanmar"). At the time they worshipped many Gods. One day, a certain man (we'll call him "Hkalam")from the tribe announced to his fellow tribesmen that there was only one God. "What? What do you think all of these are?" responded another man pointing to their "gods". Hkalam said, "Those are not really gods. They are just pieces of wood. There's only one God; He's invisible, and He revealed Himself to me. Only He should be worshipped." His fellow tribesmen laughed. "You're crazy". "Well," said Hkalam, "From now on I will worship the one God only." A few weeks later, Hkalam spoke to his fellow tribesmen again, "The one God has shown me something again!" "What did He say this time?" "He revealed that some day white-skinned men are going to visit our tribe. They are going to teach us from a ....." There was no word in the Karen language for the book which Hkalam had seen in his vision, for the Karens had no books at that time. So Hkalam tried to illustrate what he had seen in the vision. He put some leaves together in an orderly way. "How can anyone teach from leaves!?" laughed the tribesmen. Over a hundred years later, missionaries came to bring the gospel to the Karen tribe. They learned the language and translated the Bible and taught from it. The story of Hkalam and his revelation about the one God, and his prophecy had been handed down. Most of the tribe connected the appearance of the missionaries with what Hkalam had predicted, and became Christians, and the Karens are largely Christian to this day. The tribe reached other tribes with the gospel, and there are Christians among the tribal people in Myanmar to this day. These people live along the periphery of Myanmar, while the Bhuddists live in the centre. I myself met one of the Christians from the Kachin tribe. Indeed, I just received an email from him.

Now Hkalam no doubt died without ever having heard of Jesus, since the missionaries had not yet arrived during his life time. Now do you think Hkalam, as God's witness, went to heaven (or will go to heaven at the resurrection)? He had never heard of Jesus. "There is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved." But was Hkalam one of God's people nonetheless? Was he saved through Jesus because of his obedience to the revelation of God, and his turning to God and worshipping Him alone?

[brody196]

The year I attended Bible school, I learned an interesting story about the ancient Karens (who lived in Burma, or what is now "Myanmar"). At the time they worshipped many Gods. One day, a certain man (we'll call him "Hkalam")from the tribe announced to his fellow tribesmen that there was only one God. "What? What do you think all of these are?" responded another man pointing to their "gods". Hkalam said, "Those are not really gods. They are just pieces of wood. There's only one God; He's invisible, and He revealed Himself to me. Only He should be worshipped." His fellow tribesmen laughed. "You're crazy". "Well," said Hkalam, "From now on I will worship the one God only." A few weeks later, Hkalam spoke to his fellow tribesmen again, "The one God has shown me something again!" "What did He say this time?" "He revealed that some day white-skinned men are going to visit our tribe. They are going to teach us from a ....." There was no word in the Karen language for the book which Hkalam had seen in his vision, for the Karens had no books at that time. So Hkalam tried to illustrate what he had seen in the vision. He put some leaves together in an orderly way. "How can anyone teach from leaves!?" laughed the tribesmen. Over a hundred years later, missionaries came to bring the gospel to the Karen tribe. They learned the language and translated the Bible and taught from it. The story of Hkalam and his revelation about the one God, and his prophecy had been handed down. Most of the tribe connected the appearance of the missionaries with what Hkalam had predicted, and became Christians, and the Karens are largely Christian to this day. The tribe reached other tribes with the gospel, and there are Christians among the tribal people in Myanmar to this day. These people live along the periphery of Myanmar, while the Bhuddists live in the centre. I myself met one of the Christians from the Kachin tribe. Indeed, I just received an email from him.

Now Hkalam no doubt died without ever having heard of Jesus, since the missionaries had not yet arrived during his life time. Now do you think Hkalam, as God's witness, went to heaven (or will go to heaven at the resurrection)? He had never heard of Jesus. "There is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved." But was Hkalam one of God's people nonetheless? Was he saved through Jesus because of his obedience to the revelation of God, and his turning to God and worshipping Him alone?

Whether or not this man was saved or not is not a call I can make. Also, I don't think it is wise to formulate a an opinion that is contrary to scripture based on a situation that you experienced. You quoted Peter's words from Acts 4:12 and then went on to seemingly contradict it. I do not feel comfortable doing such. The scriptures are very clear on this matter in my opinion.

Having typed all of the above, I do recognize that God's ways are far higher than my own and it would not surprise me in the least if He is doing all sorts of things to bring His creation back to Himself. Such stories have been told of Jesus revealing Himself to villages and what not and I do not doubt them, but I feel that caution must be exercised when trying to deduce exactly how God is working in these situations. For example, if you are willing to believe that there are people who are justified in God's sight apart from the revelation of Jesus, then why did He have to die? Why did the Apostles stress the importance of the atonement of Christ when all one has to do is "love God"(Fairly loose term in our modern world and is defined in scripture as "keeping Jesus' commandments")??

To sum it up, I will stick to the scriptures which affirm that Jesus is the only way.

[steve]

Hi Brody,

I think Paidion's point was that this man may have been saved through Jesus—since there is no other authority (or "name") by which men can be saved. The question is not whether men can be saved through the merits of any other name than that of Jesus. Peter's words make that clear enough. The question not addressed by Peter is whether people must necessarily have heard the name of Jesus in order to be saved through Him. Abraham, we believe, was saved through the merits of Christ, yet we have no reason to believe that the name "Jesus" had ever been revealed to him. Thus, in suggesting the possible salvation of some who may not have heard of Christ, it is not suggesting that any one can be saved by any other than Christ. If I am starving to death, and a benevolent person anonymously leaves a meal for me by my side while I sleep, and then slips away, that person will have saved my life, even if I could not identify them by name. This is the question that is being considered. Could Jesus be the Savior of some who are not aware of the details of the gospel?

[steve7150]

It is the same scripture that claims affirmatively that men can be saved through no other name other then Jesus that also affirmatively calls Jesus the Savior of the world therefore to reconcile the two statements it must be true that the name of Jesus must be heard by many after this physical life is over.
Otherwise the bible contradicts itself or these two statements are not to be taken literally and if they are not literal statements it's very difficult if not impossible to understand the meanings.

[brody196]

Hi Brody,

I think Paidion's point was that this man may have been saved through Jesus—since there is no other authority (or "name") by which men can be saved. The question is not whether men can be saved through the merits of any other name than that of Jesus. Peter's words make that clear enough. The question not addressed by Peter is whether people must necessarily have heard the name of Jesus in order to be saved through Him. Abraham, we believe, was saved through the merits of Christ, yet we have no reason to believe that the name "Jesus" had ever been revealed to him. Thus, in suggesting the possible salvation of some who may not have heard of Christ, it is not suggesting that any one can be saved by any other than Christ. If I am starving to death, and a benevolent person anonymously leaves a meal for me by my side while I sleep, and then slips away, that person will have saved my life, even if I could not identify them by name. This is the question that is being considered. Could Jesus be the Savior of some who are not aware of the details of the gospel?

Its certainly a deep subject, that's for sure. I just worry about the implications of such a teaching. If we are willing to concede that Jesus saves people after death who have not so much as heard His name, can we say that maybe Jesus saves Muslims, Buddhist, Atheist, Etc...after death?

[steve]

Some have thought this a possibility. The Bible does not tell us anything specific about post-mortem opportunities to repent.

[Amyfree]

My friend has a heaven chosen now and he wouldn't tell me his religion. He knows the Bible, claims not to be a Christian.
I think people brought up from children usually talk about God and heavens, etc. with their parents or at least neighbors as to understand that divine God's are just part of life.

This bible (Gideon's Bible) is printed in several languages, I love to read russian, it sounds beautiful I think.