Trichotomy v. Dichotomy.

[Jacob]

I have had the understanding for years that there was a difference between soul and spirit because of verses like:

Hebrews 4:12
New King James Version (NKJV)
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
[ Blessing and Admonition ] Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God told adam that in the day he ate the fruit he would surely die, but his physical body and soul didn't die, so I assume it must have been his spirit that died.

Jesus says to Nicodemus that he must be born again, and then tells him he must be born of spirit. since his soul is already living, Jesus must be talking about something else.

In the old testament, it seems that body and soul are interchangeable and it also seems that soul and spirit are interchangeable. It seems to me that the dead spirit brings it in subjection to the soul and becomes soulish. Likewise, the soul without the life from the spirit has no power to rule over the body and becomes subjected to the body and becomes fleshly, for lack of a better word. That being the case, I can understand why Jews believed in just the soul/ body since their spirits were dead.

So, how does a dicotomy work in light of these things? If you know of a related debate on this forum, I would be interested. I couldn't find anthing.

[darinhouston]

Something about this seems unknowable, and yet the authors seem to have had a comfort level with the terms.

This is much speculation of course, and untested by scripture but I have wondered if maybe man in his natural condition lacks a spirit and the essence of who he is would be the "soul," a part of the body perhaps -- the brain chemistry and neurological stuff coupled with life experience, etc. When a man becomes a believer, the spirit of God (the only true spirit) indwells him and now he has a spirit, though not uniquely his own. Perhaps this spirit of God even indwells all (believer and not) in some measure from birth as being made in his image, but until the flesh is "repaired" is leaking out all over the place and is but a glimmer of influence. Other spiritual influences could inhabit the man such as evil spirits and the like, but the man has no "spirit" of his own.

I guess what I'm saying is I wonder if there is anything unique to a man's spirit that is not of Christ/God (or some other spiritual non-human influence).

Might be worth beating up on with scripture if anyone has the inclination.

[benstenson]

Spiritual death makes sense as a metaphor for sinfulness and condemnation. Though I don't know if the phrase "spiritual death" is even in the Bible.
To say that a person's spirit literally died or was taken away seems incorrect to me.
My opinion is that moral freedom is a power of our spirit and not our soul or body,therefore one would need a spirit to do good or evil.

[verbatim]

I think man were created trichomy Gen 1:26-27 God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.

While it's true that there is only One God, but when he speak in verse 26 it seem that he was not alone; Proverb 8:22-30 manifested that Wisdom was possesses
by God. God is Spirit and without Wisdom which is feminine attest that it was the Holy Spirit and John 1:1-3 and the Word which complete the Trinity.

When God created man in his image and likeness the first man God created were also spirit man and female or life and soul and call him Adam Gen 5:1-2

When God formed man from the soil of the ground Gen 2:7 he inputted life and soul to the flesh and breathed to his nostril and man became a living soul.

When man died the spirit shall return unto God who gave it Eccl 12:7 and the soul which is the spirit of the beast which was not generated will go down to Hades
Eccl 3:21 and the flesh to the grave.

[steve7150]

I think man were created trichomy Gen 1:26-27 God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.



Also in Rom 8.15 Paul says the Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit. I think the dichotomy belief is from the OT statements and the tricotomy mostly from Paul's statemts although Jesus said "Truly i say to you, today you will see me in Paradise."
The dichotomist would place the comma one word over "Truly i say to you today". However Jesus used this phrase "truly i say to you" numereous other times and never added the word "today."

[Paidion]

My belief is that man is neither a dichotomy or a trichotomy, but a single, unified, holistic being. The "soul" is the "self", the individual. The term describes the mental aspect of a person as opposed to the physical aspect which we call the "body". The "spirit" is the life of the person. Without it we would be dead.

The record in Genesis indicates that in creating Adam, God first made a body from the earth. Then He breathed into the body the breath (spirit) of life, and man became a living being (soul). Man didn't receive a soul; he became a soul.

The idea that man has an immaterial soul which inhabits the body, and can exist apart from the body, has its origin in Greek philosophy, a concept which found its way into the church.

I will say more about my belief and justify it with scripture as well as appealing to experience. But I need to leave right away and do some things in town. I am quite interested in this discussion.

[darinhouston]

My belief is that man is neither a dichotomy or a trichotomy, but a single, unified, holistic being. The "soul" is the "self", the individual. The term describes the mental aspect of a person as opposed to the physical aspect which we call the "body". The "spirit" is the life of the person. Without it we would be dead.

The record in Genesis indicates that in creating Adam, God first made a body from the earth. Then He breathed into the body the breath (spirit) of life, and man became a living being (soul). Man didn't receive a soul; he became a soul.

The idea that man has an immaterial soul which inhabits the body, and can exist apart from the body, has its origin in Greek philosophy, a concept which found its way into the church.

I will say more about my belief and justify it with scripture as well as appealing to experience. But I need to leave right away and do some things in town. I am quite interested in this discussion.

Then no one is in heaven presently (whatever "presently" means outside our time-space constraints) and it wasn't really Samuel's disembodied spirit that was conjured up? Certainly, it would mean that there is no "personality" to the Holy Spirit.

[mattrose]

I would say there are 4 defensible views

1. Hard Monistic- People are a unified and inseparable whole
2. Soft Monistic- People are whole, but made up of various aspects
3. Dichotomist- People are made up of 2 parts (flesh & spirit/soul)
4. Trichotomist- People are made up of 3 parts (flesh & spirit & soul)

Personally, I prefer to live in the tension between 2 & 3. I resonate quite a lot with what Paidion is saying, but I also think the immaterial aspect of a person can exist apart from the material aspect. But since this existence apart from each other is by no means our natural or preferred state, I'm still willing to call my view soft-monistic.

I think the debate is largely academic and philosophical, though, as the Scriptures use certain words (especially 'soul') in a very elastic way.

[verbatim]

My belief is that man is neither a dichotomy or a trichotomy, but a single, unified, holistic being. The "soul" is the "self", the individual. The term describes the mental aspect of a person as opposed to the physical aspect which we call the "body". The "spirit" is the life of the person. Without it we would be dead.

The record in Genesis indicates that in creating Adam, God first made a body from the earth. Then He breathed into the body the breath (spirit) of life, and man became a living being (soul). Man didn't receive a soul; he became a soul.

Man is triune because he was created in image of God. Gen 1:26 God says "Let us made man in our image" In 2 Corinthians The Holy Trinity is clearly set forth
in Paul's benediction that end his Second Corinthians Epistle The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all .Amen" Our Lord himself in what we call "The Great Commission" go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father,
and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost ( Mathew 28:19) Created in the image of God man therefore is trinity. He as a spiritual nature that is separate and distinct from the physical body in which it dwells.

Passage in the scripture which clearly establish that man is triune being composed of body, spirit and soul 1 Thess 5:23 & Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is powerful and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of hearts.

And when these word of God came into action this is what will happen to ungenerated man, Zechariah 13:8-9 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut, but the third part shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver, and will try them as gold is tried: and tey shall call in my name, and I will hear them: I will say, it is my people; and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Eccleciastes 3:21 Who knoweth that the spirit of man goeth upward (Eccl 12:7) and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth.

Hope this help

[steve7150]

Passage in the scripture which clearly establish that man is triune being composed of body, spirit and soul 1 Thess 5:23 & Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is powerful and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of hearts.

And when these word of God came into action this is what will happen to ungenerated man, Zechariah 13:8-9 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut, but the third part shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver, and will try them as gold is tried: and tey shall call in my name, and I will hear them: I will say, it is my people; and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Eccleciastes 3:21 Who knoweth that the spirit of man goeth upward (Eccl 12:7) and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth.




If Paul did indeed believe in a "human spirit" and wished to express this belief i don't know what else he could have said or how else he could have described it when he suggested that either he was here and present on earth OR would leave to be with the Lord, Phil 1 , 2nd Cor 5 , Rom 8.15. He had already said our bodies would remain in the grave until the second coming so he had to be referring to our "human spirit" which he also called our "inner man." Paul also said "to die is gain" and what would that gain actually be? Is it being in a grave 2,000 years or being with present with the Lord? What part of Paul is present with the Lord? If we don't believe Paul about this, why believe in the resurrection?