Saints and sinners

[Michelle]

I side with morbo. I guess this starts another list with M&M.

[Michelle]

I am more and more convinced that "theology matters," as I've been saying to people around me. What we believe about this stuff plays out in how we embody Jesus in our churches, and in our ministry in the world.

Funny. Lately, I've been more convinced that theology doesn't matter so much, if by "theology" we mean what people usually mean by it.

What do people usually mean by it?

[morbo3000]

> I am more and more convinced that "theology matters,"

Examples:

- Communion is a different experience if you believe that it is a symbol, or a divine transaction.
- Church is different if you believe Jesus is primarily known by his embodiment as his hands and feet. Or if he is primarily known through the preaching of the Bible and "correct" beliefs.
- Sanctification is different if you believe that it is God who initiates sanctification or man.

Each of these examples impacts the "type" of Christian a person is. How a church does ministry. And what it believes is the "transaction" that occurs when a person is making a decision to become a Christian.

[Singalphile]

Lately, I've been more convinced that theology doesn't matter so much, if by "theology" we mean what people usually mean by it.

What do people usually mean by it?

I think Christian people (including me) usually mean concepts related to the finer points and distinctive views of christology, pneumatology, hamartiology, soteriology, eschatology, etc. within Christianity. (I don't even know what all of those mean!) Actually, I may have been thinking of of the word "doctrine" when I wrote "theology".

- Communion is a different experience if you believe that it is a symbol, or a divine transaction.
- Church is different if you believe Jesus is primarily known by his embodiment as his hands and feet. Or if he is primarily known through the preaching of the Bible and "correct" beliefs.
- Sanctification is different if you believe that it is God who initiates sanctification or man.

Each of these examples impacts the "type" of Christian a person is. How a church does ministry. And what it believes is the "transaction" that occurs when a person is making a decision to become a Christian.

They might. The degree that they do, for better or worse if at all, would depend on the person, I would say.

[morbo3000]

I think Christian people (including me) usually mean concepts related to the finer points and distinctive views of...
- Christology
- Pneumatology
- Hamartiology
- Soteriology
- Eschatology

Don't these each impact how we live?
- What it means, as an individual, to live out our faith?
- What we believe evangelizing others and living the kingdom of God (ministry to the poor and outcast) looks like?
- How the church does body life. re: What happens when it congregates, the form it takes?

[Homer]

I think we ought to be very careful when we disparage doctrine or theology.

Paul wrote:

2 Timothy 4:3-4, New American Standard Bible (NASB)

3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4. and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

Knowing truth involves knowing correct doctrine.

Jesus commanded that we go and make disciples....teaching them to obey everything He commanded. Doctrine (Grk didaskalia) is that which is taught. The Sermon on the Mount is full of doctrine. And theology involves the study of the teachings of the church.

I have heard it said that we ought to forget about doctrine, but what I think was meant is that we should not be squabbling over non-essential things. But then we would need to agree on what is non-essential.

[TheEditor]

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that I think what we perceive as doctrine today is likely quite different than what the first century disciples considered doctrine. I have a hard time believing that if correct thinking on a point of mental apprehension (what the nature of the Son's relationship to the Father is; the intermediate state, etc) could have meant nearly as much when the Scriptures were written as they do to many today. If it were, I would expect the letters of Paul to be statements of faith; "We affirm that there is one God and that he is expressed in three seperate and distinct persons, all co-equal......"

I ain't seein' it.

Regards, Brenden.

[Paidion]

You are right, Brenden. The Greek word translated as "doctrine" actually means "teaching". This Christian teaching was instruction in ways to live a Godly, righteous life.

[TheEditor]

Thanks Paidion.

You know, the ever-changing avatars throw me for a loop. What happened to the last one where you looked like a member of The Four Lads?

Regards, Brenden.

[Singalphile]

I didn't mean to dismiss theology or doctrine. There are several theological/doctrinal concepts that are very important.