And the point is what, exactly?

[TheEditor]

My Mother passed away yesterday with my sister and I at her side. She had a troubled and difficult life. Some of the problems she had were of her own doing, others were not. A mixed bag I suppose, like most of us.

She was raised a JW from about age 4, She backslid for a number of years and returned to that Organization when she was 29. Over the years she has had a difficult time keeping up with the WT Society's "program" of "spirituality", until failing health made it impossible for her to do anything. Needless to say she had a great deal of guilt over this. The question about future destiny in light of human suffering are always on the mind when something like this happens. The standard (cliched) answers seem to come in one of the following:

This was predestined. God did this according to His good pleasure

This was not predestined. Things happen, good and bad to everyone, righteous or unrighteous.

A subset of these views is the following:

This was the only opportunity to accept Christ, so right now she is expereincing eternal seperation from God.

This was the only opportunity. Right now she experiences eternal extinction (with the possible exception of a brief resurrection to tell her she's going back to extinction again).

This was not the only opportunity. There is a future resurrection that will give people otherwise addled with weaknesses and problems an unfettered opportunity to accept the Gospel.

This is not the only opportunity. There are an unlimited number of ages during which one will have an opportunity to become reconciled to God.

Which one is the truth? Are any of these?

In human suffering, how is God honored? I try not to be provincial in my thinkng--I do not believe my problems, troubles and grief trump that of anyone else. We all have problems and grief--it is the way of all flesh. However, I to this day still struggle with how God is "glorified" in any of this temporal madness we call the human experience. Call me a "kindred spirit" with the Qoheleth, the "Congregator" of Ecclesiastes.

The only idea that makes any remotely rational sense to me from a theological perspective, and yet I believe it is not Biblical, is the Catholic notion of our suffering being joined with Christ's for some merit, either for the world or us personally.

Life is a sentence of sorts. Although, I am also thinkng of a "sentence" as in a "sentence" of words. Its a long, run-on sentence that is full of words both good and bad. When the bad happens, it puts an exclamation point (!) at the end of the sentence, and forces us to re-read it. I still grapple with this gaggle of words called life.

Regards, Brenden.

[steve7150]

In human suffering, how is God honored? I try not to be provincial in my thinkng--I do not believe my problems, troubles and grief trump that of anyone else. We all have problems and grief--it is the way of all flesh. However, I to this day still struggle with how God is "glorified" in any of this temporal madness we call the human experience. Call me a "kindred spirit" with the Qoheleth, the "Congregator" of Ecclesiastes.






I'm sorry for your loss Brenden. There are varying opinions here but i'm an expert on my own opinion so here it is. Your mom actually sounded like a believer and if that's true i think her spirit went to be with the Lord. I think that's what Paul believed. If she was not a believer i think she will have the opportunity post-mortem.
Re suffering i think we are meant to experience everything life has to offer, good and evil, love and hate, joy and suffering etc and in experiencing this full spectrum, it is necessary for our maturation.

[Michelle]

Brenden, I also offer deepest condolences on the loss of your mother.

I believe that Chirst came to redeem the world. I believe that this means that he will somehow turn every sorrow into rejoicing. How, I'm not really sure, except that I'm convinced it is not that some need to suffer in order that others are blessed. I think we are looking on the wrong side of the tapestry now, and we will be amazed when we get the full view of His workmanship.

You and your family are in my prayers,
Michelle

[jarrod]

Brenden, I too am deeply sorry for your loss. I just prayed for you brother that the Lord would be close to you and your family during this time of grieving. Jarrod

[jriccitelli]

This was not predestined. Things happen, good and bad to everyone, righteous or unrighteous.

This was not the only opportunity. There is a future resurrection that will give people otherwise addled with weaknesses and problems an unfettered opportunity to accept the Gospel.

Sorry to hear about your loss. My mom passed one year ago. My mom was not a believer, she never showed any interest in God although she never argued against God or his word. My dad, kinda similar, he argued more but also sought God out more than my mom did and yet never decided. I think God can reveal truth to them then, and they can decide then. Ongoing continuous punishment until conversion seems unnecessary and wrong to me since God knows the heart. If my mom and dad don't take his offer of life, i can live with that, they are adults and they expected me to make decisions for myself also, with that I am so thankful for them. Thanks for sharing Brenden, I do appreciate your posts and respect you much, i want to be as fully confident in you as you would of others.

[steve]

Brenden, we all sympathize with the pain of your loss—especially those of us who have suffered similar losses and know very well the thoughts that visit us at such times.

[Paidion]

Dear Brenden,

We empathize with you in your loss. We do not know precisely what this means to you and your family, but we have somewhat of an idea when we consider losses of our own loved ones. I lost a beloved spouse when she was only 54, and I thought I was taking it rather well, but then found that I couldn't pray. A brother in Christ told me this was normal, and helped me a great deal. Soon afterward, I was able to reach God again.

From the options you suggested, I tend toward this one: "There are an unlimited number of ages during which one will have an opportunity to become reconciled to God."
I don't believe in retributive punshment, and I am convinced that God will not cause any more discomfort than is absolutely necessary to induce repentance. He is pure LOVE, and He loved your mother and understood the pain she endured during her lifetime.

I assure you that your mother will live again, be reconciled to God, and that you will meet her again some day!

May you be filled with the love, joy, and peace which God provides—even in these difficult days of mourning.

With love in the Altogether Lovely One,

[TheEditor]

Dear Friends,

Thank you for the prayers and consolation. Some people are able to weather things better than others. I have always tended to be a jaded optimist, and I can be morose. One thing struck me during this time; I am considered by most still associated with my former Organization, an apostate from the truth. However, it was this apostate that allowed my Mom to hear the goodbyes of her loved ones over the phone, who read to her the Sermon on the Mount as well as the 62nd and 23 Psalms. Backslidden Catholics still get extreme Unction. The JW Elders here locally could offer no succor to a dieing woman that at the age of 5 was knuckle-rapped by her teacher and stood in the corner because she was a JW. A friend of mine once observed that religious organizations churn out two types of people; Pagans and Monsters. I used to be a Monster. By God's Grace I am no longer.

Regards, Brenden.

[robbyyoung]

Hi Brenden,

May YAHWEH restore or sustain your peace, in HIM, through Yeshua our blessed hope. I am also sadden by your lost and I hope and pray you are encouraged by the outpouring of love by the Brethren here at this forum. I've read your post carefully, and from all the possible alternatives you've conveyed, THE SCRIPTURES confirms that your mother is on safe ground regarding being on Yeshua's side! Please consider the following:

Luke 9:49-50 John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us. And Jesus said unto him, 'Forbid not, for he who is not against us, is for us.'

We all may differ a little and yet be united in the cause of Yeshua, to the best of our abilities. YAHWEH is amazing! Who were these people who DID NOT walk with the status quo? Yet, they obtained the power, to likewise, be used of YAHWEH because of their apparent belief in His Son. Your mother believed in Yeshua, she WAS NOT against Him, and therefore, He WOULD NOT be against her.

God Bless my dear Brother.

[john6809]

Brenden, so very sorry to hear of your loss. The human experience is indeed a messy one. Answers often fall short of being satisfactory.

Aside from losing my own mother at age 17, I have, mercifully, suffered very little loss. All I can offer is my assurance that you are in my prayers.

John




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