JR wrote: Paidion wrote:In my opinion, genuine forgiveness is a response to repentance (having a change of heart and mind about one's actions). If the person repents and gives evidence of it, you can forgive him, and then relations between you and him are just as if he had never offended’ (Paidion, Vicarious Forgiveness, Dec 04, 2013)
Not if you don't bring a sacrifice for sins. You tend to leave out that part. But do you know our sins are not forgiven simply by repenting?
So you cannot forgive a person who sins against you without bringing a sacrifice? That's the first I've ever heard that line.
Under the Old Covenant, God overlooked their sins when they offered sacrifice.
Heb 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
But Paul taught:
Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but NOW he commands all people everywhere to repent.
Under the law, their sins were not TAKEN AWAY. In order for sin to be taken away or overcome, Jesus died . He didn't die for the forgiveness of sins; He died for the FORSAKING of sins. Although αφιημι sometimes means "to forgive", it more frequently means "to leave" or "to forsake" as when Jesus left the crowds and went up into the mountains to pray. Jesus died to do away with sin, not to forgive it.
Heb 9:26 ...he has appeared once for all at the end of the age for the abolition of sin by the sacrifice of himself.
According to what you wrote, you only have to believe in order to get right with God. Yes, that's what I call "easy believism". Although the Greek word πιστευω can sometimes mean "to believe" it also means "to entrust oneself". For example, consider John 2:23,24
Now when he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many believed in his name when they saw the signs that he was doing. But Jesus on his part did not entrust himself to them, because he knew all people. ESV
The same word πιστευω is used in both verses, but I know of NO translation which renders it as "believe" in verse 24.
What do YOU think those people who "believed in his name" actually did? Did they simply say to Him, "I believe in you"?
I say that what they did was entrust themselves to Him. They became His disciples. They left their former life, and submitted to Him.
The two verses are in contrast. Many entrusted themselves to Jesus, but Jesus did not entrust Himself to them.
You say repentance is not enough. But what did John the Baptizer, Jesus, Peter and Paul teach as the way into the Kingdom of God?
The Gospel According to John the Baptizer
According to John the Baptizer, there were two requirements necessary to become a member of the Kingdom:
1.Repent
2. Be baptized. The end or purpose of baptism was the affirmation of one’s decision, the entrance into the door of salvation, and the beginning of the process of sending sin out of one’s life, and thus the bearing of fruit that is worthy of repentance.
The Gospel According to Jesus
Matt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
John 4:1-3 Now when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples), he left Judea and departed again to Galilee.
Jesus proclaimed the same requirements! Repent and be baptized.
The Gospel According to Peter
After Peter had addressed the men of Judea, showing that God had raised Jesus from the death, and that they had crucified Him, the following exchange took place:
Acts 2:36-39
“... Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."
Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the restof the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"
And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the sending away of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."
What were Peter’s requirements to appropriate the benefits of the Gospel? Repent and be baptized! The only difference was that now that Jesus had been raised, the gift of His Spirit was given.
Now some claim that John the baptizer and Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom, but that the apostle Paul opened the new order of the Church by preaching the gospel of grace. C.I. Scofield, in his notes on Matthew 5:5 went so far as to affirm
“…the Sermon on the Mount in its primary application gives neither the privilege nor the duty of the Church.” ---- Scofield Reference Bible, 1917 edition.
In other words, it is neither the duty nor even the privilege of the Christian to obey the laws of Christ expressed in those chapters.
Scofield taught that Christ’s teachings in the “Sermon on the Mount” were the laws of the kingdom offered to the Jews, but that since the Jews rejected the kingdom it was to be postponed. Such teachers declare that now that we are under grace, we should listen to Paul, for the words of Christ no longer apply to us who live in the age of grace. But as Paul made abundantly clear, there is only one gospel. That one gospel is the gospel of the Kingdom and Paul himself preached it!
The Gospel According to Paul
Acts 28:30,31 And he lived there two whole years at his own expense, and welcomed all who came to him, preaching the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ quite openly and unhindered.
But did Paul declare the necessity of repentance, as did John the Baptizer, Jesus, and Peter? Or did he teach that all that is necessary is to believe in the atoning work of Christ? In recounting to King Agrippa, his experience with Jesus on the road to Damascus, he concluded by saying,
Acts 26:19,20 "Wherefore, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those at Damascus, then at Jerusalem and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God and perform deeds worthy of their repentance.
Does Paul’s gospel not resemble that proclaimed by John the baptizer? Yes, Paul preached repentance, and doing deeds worthy of repentance. But did Paul proclaim the necessity of baptism? We read:
Acts 18: 8 ...many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.
It was after they heard Paul that they were baptized. The necessity of baptism must have been implicit or explicit in Paul’s message. Otherwise, why would they get baptized? So Paul’s gospel not only “resembled” that of John the Baptizer; it was identical! But is baptism really necessary in order to get right with God? Let’s look at the life of Paul himself. When were his sins washed away? Was it on the road to Damascus when Jesus spoke to him, and he submitted? That experience certainly turned him around. He was blinded, and was then ready to do what the Lord Jesus told him to do. But later, it was Ananias who counseled him to be baptized. From Paul’s own account of the matter, Ananias said:
Acts 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name..
So it was not when Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus, but at his baptism that Paul had his sins washed away.
What About John 3:16 and Acts 16:29-31...?
Acts 16:29-31 And he (the Philippian jailer) called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, and brought them out and said, “Men, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Do these passages contradict the requirements Jesus and Peter gave for becoming right with God? Do they require something less to be saved? So often today, we hear that all you have to do to get right with God is “accept Christ as your personal saviour”. That’s a phrase we don’t find in any New Testament or early Christian writing. Or all you have to do is pray “God be merciful to me a sinner”, or “I realize I’m a sinner, Jesus, and that you died to save me. I hereby accept your finished work to make me fit for heaven.” Or some other prayer.
I recall a woman from my local area who affirmed that she would not become a Christian, because she just didn’t want to have to come to the front of a church and weep and cry. Some time later, she told me that she found out from her Christian friend that a person doesn’t have to come forward, weeping and crying. “All you have to do,” she explained, “is say a little prayer, and you’ll be a Christian.” That’s the way the woman understood the “gospel” which was presented to her. One wonders how many people have “said the little prayer” and remained unchanged, but are under the delusion that they are now “saved”, that they can go on living their lives as usual, but with the expectation that they’ll go to heaven when they die, or when they are raised again to life.
So, it is said that all we have to do is believe in Jesus. However, the whole crux of the matter lies in that little word Πιστευω (pisteuō) which has been translated “believe”. Indeed, the word does mean “believe” in many contexts. But, as I said earlier in this post, another meaning is given in John’s account of Jesus’ life:
John 2:23-25 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name. But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. He did not need man’s testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man.
Is not “entrust” also the way the word is used in John 3:16 and Acts 16:29-31? If we entrust ourselves to Jesus, this includes repentance and baptism. “For God so loved the world … that whoever should entrust himself to Him would have lasting life.”