God's grace and your obedience

Man, Sin, & Salvation
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jaydam
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Re: God's grace and your obedience

Post by jaydam » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:31 pm

JacobMartinMertens wrote:Read the entire verse again. It says tormented day and night forever and ever.
And who is it speaking of as tormented day and night forever and ever?

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: God's grace and your obedience

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:34 pm

jaydam wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote:Read the entire verse again. It says tormented day and night forever and ever.
And who is it speaking of as tormented day and night forever and ever?
Revelation 20:10 NASB - 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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dizerner
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Re: God's grace and your obedience

Post by dizerner » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:35 pm

JacobMartinMertens wrote:Read the entire verse again. It says tormented day and night forever and ever.
Lol, indeed it does Jacob, indeed it does, as clear and plain as day. I love your reverence for the Word and that you're not giving in to these devious and in my eyes demonically influenced doctrines—now the church is being attacked from the inside out! But it figures. These teachers will have a more severe judgment some day. I'm not even a teacher (maybe someday) but I stick to the Word like it's my very life and it is. To say you can change what this Word says and think that's okay—to change the very words of Scripture. I can only shake my head. I wondered at the passage "Lord we've done miracles in your name," I just couldn't fathom that. But when one sets oneself up against the very Word of God—I don't want to be that man on the last day and you don't either! I hope one day you'll search me out in heaven and we can worship together brother, for now you are in my prayers.
~ Classical Arminian Christian Mystic ~

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jaydam
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Re: God's grace and your obedience

Post by jaydam » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:36 pm

JacobMartinMertens wrote:
jaydam wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote:Read the entire verse again. It says tormented day and night forever and ever.
And who is it speaking of as tormented day and night forever and ever?
Revelation 20:10 NASB - 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Exactly.

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Paidion
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Re: God's grace and your obedience

Post by Paidion » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:31 am

I wish to point out that the Greek of Revelation 20:10 literally says "into the ages of the ages", not "for ever and ever".
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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Singalphile
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Re: God's grace and your obedience

Post by Singalphile » Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:05 am

Imo, there might be two ideas that should be avoided.

1. The idea that everyone else's experience in Christ, in grace, should be the same as mine.

2. The idea that everyone in Christ should have the same theological opinions as I do.

We have different personalities and weaknesses and maturity levels. It seems likely that the personal Spirit of God would thus deal with us differently as He helps us through sanctification so that we can each grow in the areas where we're weak. I struggle more with #1 above. Paul, in 1 Corinthians, deals with these things.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23

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jeremiah
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Re: God's grace and your obedience

Post by jeremiah » Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:58 pm

Paidion wrote:I wish to point out that the Greek of Revelation 20:10 literally says "into the ages of the ages", not "for ever and ever".
No Paidion, read the verse again, it says for ever and ever, right there in the english bible—plain as day.
Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work.

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Paidion
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Re: God's grace and your obedience

Post by Paidion » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:24 pm

Jeremiah wrote:No Paidion, read the verse again, it says for ever and ever, right there in the english bible—plain as day.
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Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 82.

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JacobMartinMertens
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Re: God's grace and your obedience

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:56 pm

Some believe some people go to hell when they die. Is this Biblical?

Some believe unbelievers will end up in the lake of fire. I believe this to be Biblical.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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jeremiah
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Re: God's grace and your obedience

Post by jeremiah » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:22 pm

Jacob wrote:Some believe unbelievers will end up in the lake of fire. I believe this to be Biblical.

I agree that it's biblical.

The disagreement is over the nature of hell after Judgement Day. Is it a place purely for the punishment of those who would not obey the truth—and that's it, without end? Or is this aionian punishment a punishment unto the purity and restoration of God's own creature? I believe the scriptures would have us to see the latter as God's intentions, that he may at the last be all in all.

Anyway brother, I apologize that your thread got hijacked for yet another quibble about hell here. Hopefully, it'll get back on track. God bless you.
Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work.

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