Salvation in Jesus Christ

Man, Sin, & Salvation
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JacobMartinMertens
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Salvation in Jesus Christ

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Wed May 11, 2016 10:33 pm

What are your thoughts about the statement that salvation is by faith and not by works? Do you believe we who are of faith ought to do good works? Do you believe you should obey God and call unbelievers to obedience? Does the proclamation of the gospel message include anything to be obedient to? If so, what? Jesus died for you, for the forgiveness of your sins, and to grant you the free gift of eternal life. Repent and believe the gospel, that you would be saved. Turn from your sin to the Savior, Jesus Christ. May He be your Lord as well.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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dizerner
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Re: Salvation in Jesus Christ

Post by dizerner » Wed May 11, 2016 10:54 pm

JacobMartinMertens wrote:What are your thoughts about the statement that salvation is by faith and not by works? Do you believe we who are of faith ought to do good works? Do you believe you should obey God and call unbelievers to obedience? Does the proclamation of the gospel message include anything to be obedient to? If so, what? Jesus died for you, for the forgiveness of your sins, and to grant you the free gift of eternal life. Repent and believe the gospel, that you would be saved. Turn from your sin to the Savior, Jesus Christ. May He be your Lord as well.
We have to be saved by grace, not by our works, efforts done not through the power of the death and resurrection of Christ.

All efforts not based in and flowing from the death and resurrection of Christ will be burned up as nothing. If we understand his Blood bought our soul, we will make it to heaven on that faith, but our works will be burned up if we preach obedience to commands without teaching people the power and source of their holiness is not the demands of the Law, but instead the free gift of grace.

Law is deceitful and treacherous, because it knows God commands holiness and obedience. Holiness is the correct goal, but how we attempt to achieve that goal is the difference between heaven and hell, and can be the simple difference between trying and trusting. We do not obey God's law on our own, nor by demand, but by empowering grace through Jesus' death and resurrection. If we think we really love God and neighbor as God commands we are deceived. and less than full obedience will not be graded on a curve nor profit us anything. Once we preach obedience to God's commands, without acknowledging all men cannot obey and fall short, we have become preachers of Law and ministers of death and are becoming cut off from grace. Also Jesus, Paul, the Prophets, all tell us the heart of the Law is not external deeds but internal attitudes. Religion always wants to build and trumpet external obedience, but hide internal failings and sins (white washed tombs).

This is what Scripture teaches us.
~ Classical Arminian Christian Mystic ~

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JacobMartinMertens
Posts: 222
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Location: The United States of America; Washington State

Re: Salvation in Jesus Christ

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Wed May 11, 2016 11:04 pm

dizerner wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote:What are your thoughts about the statement that salvation is by faith and not by works? Do you believe we who are of faith ought to do good works? Do you believe you should obey God and call unbelievers to obedience? Does the proclamation of the gospel message include anything to be obedient to? If so, what? Jesus died for you, for the forgiveness of your sins, and to grant you the free gift of eternal life. Repent and believe the gospel, that you would be saved. Turn from your sin to the Savior, Jesus Christ. May He be your Lord as well.
We have to be saved by grace, not by our works, efforts done not through the power of the death and resurrection of Christ.

All efforts not based in and flowing from the death and resurrection of Christ will be burned up as nothing. If we understand his Blood bought our soul, we will make it to heaven on that faith, but our works will be burned up if we preach obedience to commands without teaching people the power and source of their holiness is not the demands of the Law, but instead the free gift of grace.

Law is deceitful and treacherous, because it knows God commands holiness and obedience. Holiness is the correct goal, but how we attempt to achieve that goal is the difference between heaven and hell, and can be the simple difference between trying and trusting. We do not obey God's law on our own, nor by demand, but by empowering grace through Jesus' death and resurrection. If we think we really love God and neighbor as God commands we are deceived. and less than full obedience will not be graded on a curve nor profit us anything. Once we preach obedience to God's commands, without acknowledging all men cannot obey and fall short, we have become preachers of Law and ministers of death and are becoming cut off from grace. Also Jesus, Paul, the Prophets, all tell us the heart of the Law is not external deeds but internal attitudes. Religion always wants to build and trumpet external obedience, but hide internal failings and sins (white washed tombs).

This is what Scripture teaches us.
A lot of people think the Law is deceitful and treacherous. I have no idea why. It is from God. It reveals His character. God's character is not deceitful or treacherous. This must have to do with people's view of the Law.

Obedience to God's commands is important. But if a person thinks they are saved or perfected by the Law (and obedience to it) they are wrong. Obeying God's commands is rewarding, but only Jesus could (and did) purchase our salvation (in or by His death upon the cross). Because of His death, burial, resurrection, appearing, and ascension, we can rest assured that our salvation is in Him and that He is Lord of all. Only God is greater than Jesus. When all things are made subject to Jesus then He Himself will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him (God) that God may be all in all.

Victory over sin is the result of the power of the Holy Spirit at work within us. This is the same Spirit by which Jesus was raised from the dead. That is, we are dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. The power and hold of sin upon our lives has been broken by the shed blood of Jesus, in which we have and find forgiveness of sins unto new birth (being born again) and eternal life (that which results from it, which we have as a promise of what is to come in our resurrection which will occur sometime after our death). There will come a day when all are resurrected. Those who were not born again before they died will be raised among the wicked to the second death, the lake of fire.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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dizerner
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Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:43 pm

Re: Salvation in Jesus Christ

Post by dizerner » Wed May 11, 2016 11:53 pm

A lot of people think the Law is deceitful and treacherous. I have no idea why.
BECAUSE THE BIBLE TEACHES IT.

9 And David says:
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10
Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.” — Romans 11


The reason for this was because THEY USED TO SEEK RIGHTEOUSNESS INSTEAD OF UNDERSTAND THEIR SINFULNESS.

but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33as it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense — Romans 9

You make me want to weep you seem so completely deaf to anything I say. Posting Scripture after Scripture, truth after truth, yet all you do is a zombie-like mantra of:

"obey the law! obey the law! obey commands! obey commands! obey! obey! obey commands! we must obey! obey obey obey!"

Can you for one minute unplug your ears and maybe hear something God wants to speak to you from his Word about your complete and utter inability to obey God's Word on a spiritual plane of attitudes?

We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
It is from God. It reveals His character.
It reals God's holiness and God's demands it DOES NOT REVEAL GOD'S GRACE AND MERCY.
God's character is not deceitful or treacherous.
Nobody anywhere is saying it is, you just do not understand the law. You are using the law UNLAWFULLY.

They want to be teachers of the Law, but they do not understand what they are saying or that which they so confidently assert. 8Now we know that the Law is good, if one uses it LAWFULLY. 9We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers
This must have to do with people's view of the Law.
It has NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING. to do with "people's view.'

IT'S WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES.
Obedience to God's commands is important. But if a person thinks they are saved or perfected by the Law (and obedience to it) they are wrong.
I wish you could just stop here. You say one thing, then you flip-flop and deny what you just said.

THEY ARE WRONG. Got that? This what you, yourself said, THEY ARE WRONG. Okay? WRONG.
Obeying God's commands is rewarding, but only Jesus could (and did) purchase our salvation (in or by His death upon the cross).
Putting yourself under Law shows you merit death. Stop mixing grace and works.
Because of His death, burial, resurrection, appearing, and ascension, we can rest assured that our salvation is in Him and that He is Lord of all.
So stop mixing grace and works, it's demonic.
Only God is greater than Jesus. When all things are made subject to Jesus then He Himself will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him (God) that God may be all in all.
Jesus subordinated to the Father but is equal in nature.
Victory over sin is the result of the power of the Holy Spirit at work within us.
So stop mixing grace and works, it's demonic.
This is the same Spirit by which Jesus was raised from the dead. That is, we are dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So stop mixing grace and works, it's demonic.
The power and hold of sin upon our lives has been broken by the shed blood of Jesus, in which we have and find forgiveness of sins unto new birth (being born again) and eternal life
So stop mixing grace and works, it's demonic.
(that which results from it, which we have as a promise of what is to come in our resurrection which will occur sometime after our death). There will come a day when all are resurrected. Those who were not born again before they died will be raised among the wicked to the second death, the lake of fire.
So stop mixing grace and works, it's demonic.

Now I've dug around the tree three times. I hope and pray to God it bears good fruit.

God bless!
~ Classical Arminian Christian Mystic ~

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JacobMartinMertens
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:43 pm
Location: The United States of America; Washington State

Re: Salvation in Jesus Christ

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Wed May 11, 2016 11:59 pm

dizerner wrote:
A lot of people think the Law is deceitful and treacherous. I have no idea why.
BECAUSE THE BIBLE TEACHES IT.

9 And David says:
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10
Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.” — Romans 11


The reason for this was because THEY USED TO SEEK RIGHTEOUSNESS INSTEAD OF UNDERSTAND THEIR SINFULNESS.

but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33as it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense — Romans 9

You make me want to weep you seem so completely deaf to anything I say. Posting Scripture after Scripture, truth after truth, yet all you do is a zombie-like mantra of:

"obey the law! obey the law! obey commands! obey commands! obey! obey! obey commands! we must obey! obey obey obey!"

Can you for one minute unplug your ears and maybe hear something God wants to speak to you from his Word about your complete and utter inability to obey God's Word on a spiritual plane of attitudes?

We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
It is from God. It reveals His character.
It reals God's holiness and God's demands it DOES NOT REVEAL GOD'S GRACE AND MERCY.
God's character is not deceitful or treacherous.
Nobody anywhere is saying it is, you just do not understand the law. You are using the law UNLAWFULLY.

They want to be teachers of the Law, but they do not understand what they are saying or that which they so confidently assert. 8Now we know that the Law is good, if one uses it LAWFULLY. 9We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers
This must have to do with people's view of the Law.
It has NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING. to do with "people's view.'

IT'S WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES.
Obedience to God's commands is important. But if a person thinks they are saved or perfected by the Law (and obedience to it) they are wrong.
I wish you could just stop here. You say one thing, then you flip-flop and deny what you just said.

THEY ARE WRONG. Got that? This what you, yourself said, THEY ARE WRONG. Okay? WRONG.
Obeying God's commands is rewarding, but only Jesus could (and did) purchase our salvation (in or by His death upon the cross).
Putting yourself under Law shows you merit death. Stop mixing grace and works.
Because of His death, burial, resurrection, appearing, and ascension, we can rest assured that our salvation is in Him and that He is Lord of all.
So stop mixing grace and works, it's demonic.
Only God is greater than Jesus. When all things are made subject to Jesus then He Himself will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him (God) that God may be all in all.
Jesus subordinated to the Father but is equal in nature.
Victory over sin is the result of the power of the Holy Spirit at work within us.
So stop mixing grace and works, it's demonic.
This is the same Spirit by which Jesus was raised from the dead. That is, we are dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
So stop mixing grace and works, it's demonic.
The power and hold of sin upon our lives has been broken by the shed blood of Jesus, in which we have and find forgiveness of sins unto new birth (being born again) and eternal life
So stop mixing grace and works, it's demonic.
(that which results from it, which we have as a promise of what is to come in our resurrection which will occur sometime after our death). There will come a day when all are resurrected. Those who were not born again before they died will be raised among the wicked to the second death, the lake of fire.
So stop mixing grace and works, it's demonic.

Now I've dug around the tree three times. I hope and pray to God it bears good fruit.

God bless!
The Law is about love of God and love of your neighbor. God's character is love. He loves us, we also ought to love one another.

Shalom.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

User avatar
dizerner
Posts: 1221
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:43 pm

Re: Salvation in Jesus Christ

Post by dizerner » Thu May 12, 2016 12:24 am

JacobMartinMertens wrote:What are your thoughts about the statement that salvation is by faith and not by works? Do you believe we who are of faith ought to do good works? Do you believe you should obey God and call unbelievers to obedience? Does the proclamation of the gospel message include anything to be obedient to? If so, what? Jesus died for you, for the forgiveness of your sins, and to grant you the free gift of eternal life. Repent and believe the gospel, that you would be saved. Turn from your sin to the Savior, Jesus Christ. May He be your Lord as well.
If you'd like to read more how I interact with Law preachers who neglect grace you can read through these threads:

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.p ... get-to-sin

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.p ... of-Sinning

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.p ... Jesus-know

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.p ... s-a-burden

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.p ... -mentioned
~ Classical Arminian Christian Mystic ~

User avatar
JacobMartinMertens
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:43 pm
Location: The United States of America; Washington State

Re: Salvation in Jesus Christ

Post by JacobMartinMertens » Thu May 12, 2016 1:44 am

dizerner wrote:
JacobMartinMertens wrote:What are your thoughts about the statement that salvation is by faith and not by works? Do you believe we who are of faith ought to do good works? Do you believe you should obey God and call unbelievers to obedience? Does the proclamation of the gospel message include anything to be obedient to? If so, what? Jesus died for you, for the forgiveness of your sins, and to grant you the free gift of eternal life. Repent and believe the gospel, that you would be saved. Turn from your sin to the Savior, Jesus Christ. May He be your Lord as well.
If you'd like to read more how I interact with Law preachers who neglect grace you can read through these threads:

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.p ... get-to-sin

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.p ... of-Sinning

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.p ... Jesus-know

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.p ... s-a-burden

http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.p ... -mentioned
This was interesting to read. I have read all your posts in these threads.
John 1:41, 49 NASB - 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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