Hold to repentance

Man, Sin, & Salvation
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Paidion
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Re: Hold to repentance

Post by Paidion » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:15 pm

Paidon,

another presumption, that a particular english word best represents the hebrew or greek word. not so

A greek word best represents the greek word

A hebrew word best represents the hebrew word

I know that makes it hard, but that's how it is my friend
That's fine, but how are you going to translate Hebrew and Greek if you don't use English words to represent the Hebrew or Greek words? The word "soul" itself is an English word that has been used to represent the Hebrew word "nephesh" and the Greek word "ψυχη" (psyche).
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 82.

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Paidion
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Re: Hold to repentance

Post by Paidion » Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:21 pm

How do you know they were being metaphorical?

How do I know who were being metaphorical?
It's not like there's a warning. Sure seems literal to me.
What seems literal to you?
And the early church father's agree to the literal Greek nt, meaning that the Greeks were pretty correct on some ideas.
I don't know why you are saying this. There are quite a few on another forum who go after me for taking the Bible too literally.
And remember the fathers, using/quoting the Greek prophet Sibyll was very effective at persuading the Greeks that the Christ is the True.
I am familiar with the Sibyl but I have no idea what you are affirming in this sentence. Is anyone saying that Christ is not reality?(or "the True.")
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 82.

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njd83
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Re: Hold to repentance

Post by njd83 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:40 pm

How do you know when parts of the new testament referring to a soul passing onto a place called Hades is not a literal thing but Jesus and others were just using the metaphor of the day?
Just because you take the bible more literal than others doesn't mean you take it all completely literally all the time, when it may in fact be more literal than your presumption =)

Other peoples interpretation aren't the standard, God's word is. (In greek), well, and interpretation by his Spirit, and using early church father's is helpful. History is helpful.

My Sibyll logic is thus: if the Greeks sought a God-being for wisdom, more than other cultures, and God gave the Sibyll as prophets, whom the church quoted to affirm God would bring a son into the world as savior dying for sins. Which in turn brought many Greeks to Christ. Then the Greeks might not have been that far off as you suppose.

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njd83
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Re: Hold to repentance

Post by njd83 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:22 pm

Paidion wrote:
Paidon,

another presumption, that a particular english word best represents the hebrew or greek word. not so

A greek word best represents the greek word

A hebrew word best represents the hebrew word

I know that makes it hard, but that's how it is my friend
That's fine, but how are you going to translate Hebrew and Greek if you don't use English words to represent the Hebrew or Greek words? The word "soul" itself is an English word that has been used to represent the Hebrew word "nephesh" and the Greek word "ψυχη" (psyche).
You define it based on how it's defined by writings and how its used. A full definition laid out is helpful to understand what something is and isn't.

Psuche is not "self" in the English sense of the word self. Because it has unique leanings. It's mind will and emotions, or rather it's the spiritual entity that contains those three functions mind will and emotions. It's who the person is as a conglomeration of their past, their mind/understanding/belief and their will to choose or have inclinations to things. All three interplay. That that whole "thing" which has the interconnected interplay between beliefs understanding will inclinations emotions is what we call a "soul" or psuche. Psuche itself is not any one of its descriptive definitions but the whole entity of the person who has this dynamic existence and interplay: You. However You also have flesh that covers you because without multiplication you would not exist. We are " lower than the angels" due to flesh. But we also get to become fathers by our created purpose.

Angles don't have flesh but exist with spirit and soul I'm assuming.

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njd83
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Re: Hold to repentance

Post by njd83 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:33 pm

The soul also has interplay with the flesh. And the Spirit interplay with the soul. And if the soul submits to the spirit it has access to the flesh and can bring healing to the flesh, and quench the carnal lusts of the flesh.
....there are three things out of which, as I have shown, the complete man is composed—flesh, soul, and spirit. One of these does indeed preserve and fashion [the man]—this is the spirit; while as to another it is united and formed—that is the flesh; then [comes] that which is between these two—that is the soul, which sometimes indeed, when it follows the spirit, is raised up by it, but sometimes it sympathizes with the flesh, and falls into carnal lusts....
-Irenaeus - Against Heresies - book 5 chapter 9
We recognise two varieties of spirit, one of which is called the soul (ψυχή), but the other is greater than the soul, an image and likeness of God:
-Tatian - Address to the Greeks, chapter 7

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njd83
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Re: Hold to repentance

Post by njd83 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:49 pm

Another question

If spirit soul and body are just a spiritual representation of the whole entity of the person, why does Jesus not say
"I tell you fear him who is able to destroy the body and soul and spirit in gehenna"
Another verse may tell the reason
Young's Literal Translation
And the dust returneth to the earth as it was, And the spirit returneth to God who gave it. Ecclesiastical 12:7.

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Paidion
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Re: Hold to repentance

Post by Paidion » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:29 pm

If spirit soul and body are just a spiritual representation of the whole entity of the person
I have said nothing about them being "just a spiritual representation of the whole entity of the person." What I said is that these are three ASPECTS of the whole person, that the "real you" doesn't continue to live somewhere after you die. After you die, only your body remains.
And the dust returneth to the earth as it was, And the spirit returneth to God who gave it. Ecclesiastical 12:7.
Yes, when you die, the spirit of life returns to God who gave it. But the spirit of life in you is not YOU. It is that life that God imparted to you at the beginning of your existence, and then, after your death, it returns to Him. YOU don't exist after your death. You are dead! And you never will exist again until God or his Son raises you from death. That will not happen until Jesus returns.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 82.

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njd83
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Re: Hold to repentance

Post by njd83 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:33 pm

That's a false doctrine.

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Paidion
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Re: Hold to repentance

Post by Paidion » Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:47 pm

The expert theologian has pronounced a verdict!
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 82.

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njd83
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Re: Hold to repentance

Post by njd83 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:07 pm

Not that my opinion matters... but for 2 cents...

Hey I just go with the early father's who were 1-3 generations from the apostles and other disciples and witnesses

I don't think it's a heaven or hell issue... I don't know for sure
Of a truth, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation he who is fearing Him, and is working righteousness, is acceptable[δεκτός] to Him; Acts 10:34-35
Do you fear Him? Do you work righteousness?

I believe God sees the good in people and tries to encourage the good and convict the bad. I think you kinda believe the similar type thing from what I've read.

I don't believe God is a monster. It's just that all good things are with him, including truth and understanding.

I guess it's more a belief that it's a false doctrine. But I certainty can't make sense of that view.

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