Re: Abrahamic Salvation?
Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:49 am
commonsense wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:13 amDwight, The stories and parables that Jesus told were to reveal truths that can be found in the Old Testament.dwight92070 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:04 amDwight - I have given you specific teachings of Jesus. Now you give me SPECIFIC scriptures in the Old Testament where you will find these teachings. If you just say, "The prophets and the Psalms cover all of that." , you would be wrong. Give me the exact verses that teach the same thing, since you made that claim.
Dwight - Again, you can't give specific answers, so you just evade the question with a general "These truths are in the Old Testament". Wrong. Where is the truth of the angels taking out the unrighteous from among the righteous at the end of the age, found in the Old Testament? Where is the truth that the Messiah would FULFILL the law, not abolish it, found in the Old Testament? Where is the truth that faith in the Messiah would bring us righteousness, NOT the keeping of the law, found in the Old Testament? Where is the truth of the four kinds of hearts that Jesus spoke of in the parable of the sower, found in the Old Testament? Where is the truth that the promises given to Abraham and to his SEED, is actually a reference to CHRIST, not Abraham's physical descendants, found in the Old Testament? Galatians 3:16 Where is the truth of the rapture of the church found in the Old Testament? Where is the truth that God and the Messiah are One found in the Old Testament? Where is the truth that if you've seen the Messiah, you've seen God, found in the Old Testament? John 14:9
Dwight - Even if you might find SOME of that information in the Old Testament, it is pretty much "hidden" from our understanding, until Jesus arrives on the scene and His apostles, to whom He gave understanding of the Old Testament. Luke 24:44-45 Prior to Jesus "opening the minds" of His apostles to understand the Old Testament, NO ONE FULLY UNDERSTOOD THE OLD TESTAMENT.
You said that no man can obey all of God's commands, yet you say that we are to obey His commands.????dwight92070 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:04 amDwight - Do you command the wind and the sea to be calm, as Jesus did? Do you walk on water, as Jesus did? Do you raise the dead, as Jesus did? Do you forgive the sins of men, actually blot them out, as Jesus did? Will you die for the sins of all mankind, as Jesus did?
NO, we are to obey His commands to us, not do everything that He did, because we can't.
Dwight - Anyone who is well-versed in the New Testament would know what I meant. All of us sin at one time or another, even if we are a Christian. James said "We all stumble in many ways". So, no, no man can obey all of God's commands all of the time. Paul said that the "scripture has shut up everyone under sin". Galatians 3:22
Dwight - The only way any person could be saved by obeying God's commands, is if he kept ALL OF THEM ALL OF THE TIME. Paul put it like this: "For if a law had been given WHICH WAS ABLE to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law." Galatians 3:21 But the LAW IS NOT ABLE TO IMPART LIFE? Why? NOT because the law is faulty, but because WE ARE FAULTY, we cannot always keep it.
Dwight - But all of that is a short rabbit trail from the main issue. The point I tried to make is: God commanded obedience to His laws in the Old Testament, but he knew that they would still sin. SO HE INSTITUTED ANIMAL SACRIFICES as a FORESHADOWING OF THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE, HIS SON. The animal sacrifices did not take away sin, but they were considered a covering of sin, until the time when the Messiah came. "Behold, the lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world." (John the Baptist - John 1:29)
Dwight - But now, under the New Covenant, God is no longer demanding obedience to His Old Testament laws -rather He is demanding obedience to His Son, Jesus. We are under the law of Christ, as Paul said. And yes, we still sin, not because we want to, but because we are human. But God made provision for that too. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness". "The blood of Jesus His Son, cleanses us from all sin." 1 John chapter 1.
"Forgive and you will be forgiven. If you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive you."
Jesus told Peter to get out of the boat and walk on water.
" Truly I tell you if you have faith and do not doubt, not only will you do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, "Be lifted up and thrown into the sea." it will happen. If you believe you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."
Isaiah: "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me? I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed cattle. I do NOT delight in the blood of bulls, lambs or goats.When you come to appear before Me, WHO HAS REQUIRED THIS FROM YOUR HAND? Bring no more FUTILE sacrifices, incense is AN ABOMINATION to Me .........."dwight92070 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:19 amBy the way, tell me who in the Old and New Testaments believed, as you do, that the Levitical law, as you call it, was from foreign gods.
Dwight - All it takes is to simply look at the CONTEXT of Isaiah chapter one, to see that God is not condemning the very practice that He Himself instituted - i.e. animal sacrifices. RATHER He is condemning the giving of animal sacrifices, WHILE, AT THE SAME TIME, BEING "WEIGHED DOWN WITH INIQUITY" AND "REBELLION". Isaiah 1:4 and 5 Had they been repentant, there would have been NO PROBLEM WITH THE ANIMAL SACRIFICES.