The two Witnesses

End Times
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smcllr3
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The two Witnesses

Post by smcllr3 » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:54 am

I don't know if this is right to post this here seeing that I don't believe that it is an eschatological passage but it is generally viewed by others as such so here is where I will post it.

Can someone who has been exposed to the multiple understandings of apocalyptic language and the book of Revelation tell me if there is a flaw that stands out in there mind in my understanding of Revelation 11? Like maybe a reason why my understanding wouldn't work based on different usage of the imagery. I don't need a button-hole explanation because those didn't work to begin with. I'm not trying to be different or trying to come up with something new but when I started reading the Bible a lot over the past two years I exposed myself to typical language of the prophets which is, I guess, primarily Hebrew poetry and a variety of Hebraisms and Hebraic imagery (? if those are not the same thing) and I started noticing that things stood out in the book of Revelation. I started reading Revelation over and over because it seems as though that Jesus wants you to. For example, when Jesus introduces himself in the letters to each individual church between ch. 2 and ch. 3 he describes himself using imagery from the beginning of the book and when he closes he uses imagery from the end of the book making one want to go back and read again. Not only that but the same imagery is sprinkled throughout the entire book and though that maybe so we have some way to identify the many pictures of Jesus it also seems as though it was done in a way that causes curiosity so that one would want to read it over and over to get the picture. When it occurred to me that that may have been done on purpose I started taking the wording more seriously as though there were no accidents in the specific words used. Now, I'm not loopy or mystical but it just seemed natural to me to see it this way and I merely realized that I was doing it. I didn't plan on it. That said, can someone check my approach [and not my interpretation] based on the imagery?

1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.

2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.


To me, all I see happening here is God identifying "his people" (v.1)from those who are not "his" (v.2). I know that this is generally seen as marking out for destruction but elsewhere we find John measuring the new Jerusalem and it represented the dwelling place of God with his people which during the temple system the same was true with the temple and I think that that is what is portrayed here.
Another reason why I only see that here is because he finishes ch. 10 saying, "You must prophesy again concerning many peoples and nations and tongues and kings". If he is doing it again, then it seems that he is being taken back to a starting point of his prophecy because he didn't even finish the prophecy. His prophecy ended with the peoples not being repentant. When I read of the spreading plague in the book of Numbers ch. 16:48-50 and ch. 25 the plague didn't stop until they corrected the problem which is not where the plague left off at the end of Revelation ch. 9 (the sixth trumpet). Seeing that he wasn't done, and the seventh trumpet isn't sounded until after this passage, then this is an interlude that seems to me to give a synopsis of the same things he just prophesied.
If so, then to me the starting point of the synopsis is with the temple system and the worshipers (v.1) were the believers and those in the outer court (v.2) were the unbelievers, and the 42 months represent half of seven years, which I take seven years to mean all of time between the beginning to the end of the earth. So half of time would be 42 months, 1,260 days or 3 1/2 years. Now because these numbers are used on the other side of the seventh trumpet passage in chapter 12 during another synopsis which is, in that passage, of the kingdom age, the new covenant and the other half (42 months) of all of time (7 years), putting Christ in the middle, it seems to confirm my interpretation, in my mind.

3 "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.

5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.

6 These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.


Now starting out with the word "And" seems to mean that this is running congruently with the temple system as well. The two witnesses are the Law and the Prophets based on my understanding of "The rich man and Lazarus", the transfiguration, and Romans 3:21 which specifically refers to the Law and the Prophets as "witnesses". Not only that but the plagues resemble Moses' and Elijah's plagues; Moses being the quintessential Law giver and Elijah the quintessential prophet.
I don't take the fire out of their mouth as being literal no more than I take the sword out of Jesus' mouth literal. But I believe by John 5:45 and and the implications of Luke 16:29 that this refers to the judgment that comes on those who transgress the "Law and the Prophets" during the old covenant or the first half (1,260 days) of all of time (7 years). This again mirror imaging the other side of the seventh trumpet passages where the rod of iron is sported by Jesus given in a synopsis of the kingdom age. It's like a story picture as if it is intentionally done this way so that we would pick up on it. When you see it, it is fascinating, like understanding Isaiah for the first time.

7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

9 Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb.

Their testimony is oddly enough not a "testimony of Jesus". The term "testimony" without the inclusion of Jesus' name in Revelation is mentioned in chapter 6:9, and chapter 12:11 (and one other place but not in the same way and I have not decided that I know what it means there yet) both places I believe are talking about saints from the old covenant which fits in the imagery I already have going.

I believe the beast is any or all system/s raised against the saints and more importantly Christ. I believe that Christ was the embodiment of the Law and the prophets because according to Romans 10:4 Christ was the end of the Law and according to Daniel 9:27, Christ's death would bring an end to the sacrificial system. I believe there is an allusion to the seventieth week of Daniel in the 3 ½ days mentioned in v. 9.




Well this is a good enough sampling. I'd like to see the response before I continue. Besides it's getting really late for me. please comment.
"For we will surely die and are like water spilled on the ground which cannot be gathered up again Yet God does not take away life, but plans ways so that the banished one will not be cast out from him." II Samuel 14:14

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