Compendium of Basic Eschatology

End Times
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darinhouston
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Compendium of Basic Eschatology

Post by darinhouston » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:11 pm

I thought it would be interesting to have folks (including Steve) put down in simple brief words and as concise as possible what their basic views are of the end times (from Christ's death to the New Earth, for example). Rather than debate the points here, let's just use this topic as a compendium of views.

If anyone wants to debate a point, let's start a separate topic for that point/question. But, if someone wants to simply reference another one and merely point out their difference of opinion or simple commentary, that'll work.

To start things off, this is something I sent to a friend of mine in connection with something else. I haven't reviewed this carefully,, but I think this roughly represents my position.
I have a pretty "Reformed" end times view and have a pretty straightforward eschatology without all the complicated dispensational schemes so popular today (I wish Left Behind could be left behind). I believe Satan was bound at the cross, that Christ is indeed ruling now from Heaven and that we're presently in the "thousand" year reign awaiting Christ's physical return to rapture those alive and dead as a single event and they will be judged along with the destruction of both death itself and the place of the dead along with the destruction of Satan as tempter and that those who survive/remain will be with Christ in the New Earth forever (not some ethereal angelic heaven experience). I place most of the apocalyptic imagery about end times (from Revelation and from the Olivet Discourse) at AD70 when Christ did return in judgment to judge Israel, and to destroy the Temple and the religious institutions they continued after rejecting Him. I take Christ's teachings at the sermon on the mount to be for us now and forever and not a teaching for jews during a future time and I don't believe the temple is to be rebuilt (though it might be, of course) or that the sacrificial system is to be reinstated (a detestable thought).

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Murf
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Re: Compendium of Basic Eschatology

Post by Murf » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:12 pm

I’m basically a preterist-historical-futurist

By that I mean that most of the apocalyptic images in Revelation pertain to Jerusalem and was fulfilled in 70 AD. A few things were fulfilled in history after 70 AD. (i.e. I believe the RRC is the little horn) and only one thing is yet to be fulfilled that being Christ’s return.

At Christ’s return the Church will return to the new earth with new spiritual bodies (probably a lot like Adam & Eve’s bodies). The non Church will be absent from God (I don’t have a strong conviction about the details of their eternity).

tim

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steve
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Re: Compendium of Basic Eschatology

Post by steve » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:47 pm

Actually, my positon is fairly identical to that which Tim and Darin have posted.

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RickC
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Re: Compendium of Basic Eschatology

Post by RickC » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:29 am

Hi folks, how you been?

A Stream of Thought Post
Scripture references, most you have to look up, 8-)
Caps and/or bold to designate what "parousia" means or points to in diff contexts (or just for emphasis).
___________________________

Jesus, while in his "kenosis" state - inclusive of post-Rez, pre-Asc. Life - did not know all the details (e.g., Acts 1:6).
Devil bound @ Rez, when Jesus CAME out of the tomb - Healing of the Nations began (Gospel).
New Creation INAUGURATED: Heavenly City starts DESCENDING, God's Temple IN believers.
Dead & Living Saints Rule with Christ NOW, overthrowing the devil's kingdom, healing its former citizens.
Jesus CAME at Pentecost, Kingdom began CONQURING lands outside Judea.
Kingdom of God WENT to Gentiles with Philip & Peter initially.
Paul PRESENTED CHRIST'S KINGDOM to total pagans.
70 AD: Jesus CAME to separate Remnant from "chaff."
Anyone can come and enter NOW into The Holy City - our mother, Mount Zion - which IS COMING DOWN from God.
Outside God's Temple & Holy City - ARE (right now) - the dogs, sorcerers, all liars & those who practice a lie.
When Christ COMES DOWN AGAIN the Old Creation of the Heavens & Earth will pass IN A FLAME OF FIRE.
The New Heavens & New Earth - now being built - will emerge AT THAT moment - in the twinkling of an eye.
Everything and everyone not having been OF the New Creation will vanish forever from the FACE of Jesus Christ.
Those who had believed will MARVEL HIM AT HIS APPEARING and BECOME AS HE IS.

(quasi-educated intuitive premonitions)

Afaik, the Bible doesn't say what things will be like after this (no more nations deceived, no one needs healing, etc.)....

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Allyn
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Re: Compendium of Basic Eschatology

Post by Allyn » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:33 am

The end times must include the resurrection therefore we have to consider its proper location within the end time senerio.

A short summary from me would be that the great trib/time of distress occurs in 70 AD followed immediately by the coming of the son of man on the clouds(parousia). At this time the resurrection of the dead occurs. These are the people who have died prior to AD70. From that time on the believers who physically die are raised to life in Heaven at the time of their physical death where they remain forever.
Let's see how these verses fit together.

Luke 21
32"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

ALL of the things would happen in THIS generation and Jesus was talking to:
Mark 13
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John and Andrew asked him privately,

Jesus DID refer to YOU, meaning you of HIS audience :
14"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

All these verses agree with my summary as written.

1 Thess 4
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
In this verse everybody understands that the first WE is Paul and those he was writing to and I accept that the second WE means the same thing. That is what the verse says word for word, that is what I use and it agrees with all verses above.

1 Cor 15
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

Same situation, Paul is WE in the sentence and the WE is him or some of who he is writing to in the letter to Corinth. That makes him a possible WE who would not have to sleep at the last trump.
Agrees with my summary and it agrees with the verses, that generation, the coming all in 70 AD.

John 21
23Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"

If anybody knew the proper generation it was Jesus Christ and IF He wanted the disciple to stay alive until HE returned then the generation is Johns. Again that agrees with my summary and agrees with all of my above verses.

1 cor 10
11These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

Again it agrees with the end of the age and that fits with my summary concerning the resurrection of the dead being at that time.
We see from Daniel 12 that Daniel himself is told he will receive his inheritance...
13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."
The resurrection is at the time of the distress as is written in Daniel 12:1-3.

Agrees with my summary and all of the verses.

Rev 2
25Only hold on to what you have until I come.

Off the page, word for word, that generation, not future because there is no longer a Thyatira and because dead people can't hold.
******************
2 cor 5
1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

1 Cor 15
44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1 cor 15
49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
*********************
The above agree with the being raised to Heaven part. Both for those who were in the resurrection of the dead and for those who are raised to life after the parousia at the time of their personal death. Rev 14:13

Within this post you will not find any places where I have called on the reader to see a certain word as meaning anything other than the normal meaning, there is nowhere that I have only quoted part of a verse so it would say what I needed, there is nowhere that I make up a NEW meaning for a word, but accept them all word for word as they come off the page.

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Mellontes
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Re: Compendium of Basic Eschatology

Post by Mellontes » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:58 pm

Sorry to be off topic, but something just jumped off the page ever so clear...

In the Olivets of Mathew and Mark, the disciples' (Peter, James, John and Andrew) come PRIVATELY to Jesus and ask him:

Matthew 24:3 - ...Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming [The Parousia], and of the end of the world [Age]?

Mark 13:4 - Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

And I think that when Jesus said the following that the first century audience relevance must be maintained completely throughout Christ's discourse.

Matthew 24:4 - And Jesus answered and said unto them...

Mark 13:5 - And Jesus answering them began to say...

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