Historic premillennialism questions???

[scotty]

Hi,

I'm trying to understand Historic premillennialism's positions on the "1000" year millennial period.

1) Will Jesus reign from Jerusalem?
2) Will there be a rebuilt Temple (physical)?
3) Will there be animal sacrifices reinstated?
4) Will Israel be exalted over the other nations?
5) Will Israel inherit the "land" as promised in the OT?
6) Is the 1000 year reign a literal 1000 years or symbolic for an indefinite amount of time?

Thanks for your help.

[Paidion]

Scotty, with regard to your questions, I don't know what other historic premillenialists believe, but I, as a historic premillenialist will simply state my own thoughts for now, without giving any scriptural justification for them.

1) Will Jesus reign from Jerusalem?

I don't think so, but am not sure.

2) Will there be a rebuilt Temple (physical)?

Not as a plan from God. The old order is passé. It may be rebuilt by the modern Israelites, but will not as a fulfillment of prophecy in order that Judaism as such will have a restored centre of worship as part of God's plan.

3) Will there be animal sacrifices reinstated?

Definitely not. Again, I mean "not" as part of God's plan for the Jews. It is possible that the Jews may begin such sacrifices again, if they rebuild the temple, and have control of it.

4) Will Israel be exalted over the other nations?

No. Israel as a nation has no "special place" in the end-time purposes of God. He is interested only in the true Israel which Paul describes in Romans. This Israel has existed from the beginning of God's call as "the remnant". In Romans, Paul calls it an "olive tree".

5) Will Israel inherit the "land" as promised in the OT?

As a nation, no.

6) Is the 1000 year reign a literal 1000 years or symbolic for an indefinite amount of time?

It is a definite period of time during which Christ will reign on earth --- and not a symbolic number. I am not sure whether it will be exactly 1000 years, but will at least approximate that number.

I think only dispensationalists would answer your first 5 questions with a "yes" in the sense of their fulfillment being part of God's intention for the end-times.

Historic premillenialists definitely believe that a personal Antichrist will appear prior to the coming of Christ. He will try to lead many astray.

One of the most thorough discussions in the early church of the coming of the personal Antichrist was that of Irenaeus (A.D. 120-202) in his work Against Heresies Book 5, Chapter 25. Irenaeus believed that the Antichrist would sit in the temple in Jerusalem, displaying himself as Christ. Irenaeus believed that he would be a Jew from the tribe of Dan --- the tribe that is missing from the list of the 12 tribes in Revelation.

[scotty]

Paidion,

Thanks for your input.

Several verses seem to indicate that at the Lord's second advent all believers receive their glorified bodies (1 Corinthians 15:52) and all unbelievers/ungodly receive eternal judgment.

2 Thessalonians 1

7and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Question: Who then according to Historic premillennialists is going to inhabit and repopulate the earth during the 1000 year millennial reign?

Thanks.

[Paidion]

2 Thessalonians 1

7and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Question: Who then according to Historic premillennialists is going to inhabit and repopulate the earth during the 1000 year millennial reign?

I don't think things are quite as simple as "those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus" (actually, "those who do not listen to the gospel of our Lord Jesus") and those who do.

Notice in Matthew 25, Jesus spoke of three classes of people who will be present at His coming: (1) His brethren, (2) the sheep, and (3) the goats.

(1) Doubtless, His brethren will be His disciples, those who will share in the first resurrection at Christ's coming.

(2) The sheep will enter into lasting life on no other ground than that they will have ministered to Christ's brethren --- they will have given them food and drink and clothing, and visited them when they will be imprisoned.

(3) The goats will enter into lasting correction.

I suggest that the passage you quoted from 2 Thessalonians 1, deals with classes 1 and 3, but doesn't mention class 2. It is only Christ's Brethren who will be raised immortal at His coming.

I suggest that the sheep will continue in their mortal bodies during the millenium, even though they will also enter into lasting life at that time, possessing a quality of life which comes from Christ Himself.

[scotty]

Paidion,

Again, thanks for your reply.

I'm narrowing down my end-time view between Historic premillennialism and Amillennialism. I've absolutely thrown out Dispensational premillennialism. Additonally, I've discarded the partial-Preterist view due to the early date writing claim for the Book of Revelation. To me that claim is not concrete enough to base my eschatological belief upon.

Questions:

1) Historical premillennialism was a major if not the dominant view of the early church fathers. Do you know if Historic premillennialism is making a comeback today?

2) Do you know how Amillennialism views the Book of Revelation, eg...Fulfilled (like Preterist )? Partially fulfilled? Future?

Thanks.

[Douglas]

Heya Scotty,

You may have "ruled out" certain viewpoints at this moment and time (and thats ok), but you might be surprised if you continue with a "teachable" spirit what the Holy Spirit will reveal over time. You never know brother.

Doug

[scotty]

Hey Doug,

Actually I'm pretty flexible and not dogmatic when it comes to end-times scenarios. The true 'epiphany' will come in eternity and we'll be able to look back and say, ah..that's how it unfolded

However, that doesn't mean I want to be a knucklehead about what soon may transpire. That's why I'm in the process of studying the various views. Here's what I think so far:

1) Dispensationalism -- makes the least sense with their pre-trib rapture and its flesh/natural Israel focus. It seems that natural Israel is more exalted than Christ in much of their eschatology! Additionally, I think it's an affront to the Cross of Jesus to claim reinstitution of the Temple/animal sacrifice system (even if for remembrance purpose only) in the millennium (if there is one).

2) Historicism- can't embrace - who decides what historical events Revelation speaks of?

3) Partial -Preterism -- it makes alot of sense to me but hinges on an early date writing of Revelation. That's constitutes a shaky foundation in my mind.

4) Idealism - literally, too non-literal for me

5) Postmillennialism - I wish this were true for it's optimistic outlook. Realistically, the world is getting more evil and some major crappola is going to hit the fan soon.

That leaves me with Amillennialism and Historic premillennialism. I lean more towards HP right now, Again, though...nothing's 100% set in concrete.

[Paidion]

Greetings Scotty. Thanks for laying out your thoughts about the various eschatological positions.

I am trying to understand non-preterist amillenialism.

According to amillenialist thought, is Christ now seated on His heavenly throne, ruling over the entire world? Or does He rule only over His kingdom (His disciples)?

[Douglas]

Heya Paidion & Scotty,

Here is a good resource for the "non-pret amillennial" viewpoint that I found very helpful some years back.

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/escha ... nial.shtml

Doug

[Paidion]

Scotty, here is a short article describing the historic premillenialist position:

Historic Premillenialism