Isaiah 2:3-4

[thrombomodulin]

I have several questions on Isaiah 2:3-4

And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more

In Lecture #4, http://theos.org/media/category/28/, Steve states that the "nations" refers only to those Gentiles who "go up to the mountain of the LORD" - namely it is only those Gentiles who are informed and follow the teaching of the God's law via the church (Hebrews 12).

I understand that Steve says that this is justified because the (1) Hebrew word "Goyim" can be arbitrarily translated "Gentiles", (2) the language denoting a subset of the Gentiles from 2:3 "Many people...[shall] go up..." extends through verse 4. I am not sure either assumption is justified, in particular the first. A quick check of the word used elsewhere would suggest a meaning of "nation" which is similar to its common use in English (e.g. Gen 46:3 applies this to the Children of Abraham.).

I would like to ask if anyone can provide a more extended explanation of why this 2:4 should be understood in as fulfilled in Amil rather than premil approach.

Peter

P.S. sorry for the short/terseness of question, time is short today

Edit: Fix the verseblock

[RICHinCHRIST]

Hi,

Although I have no extensive knowledge of the original languages, nor have I listened to Steve's lectures on these topics, perhaps I can join the discussion a bit here.

I've been meditating on Isaiah lately just to really catch a glimpse of the humility needed for a man of God. Isaiah often gives us the revelation of what "seeing the glory of God" does to someone; he cries out "woe is me!" (Isaiah 6:5). This really seems to be one of the major themes in Isaiah. He is appealing to the people of Israel to repent and turn to God while showing what happens to all the other nations who fail to humble themselves.

In Isaiah 2 I see him depicting the glorious scene of what happens when everyone gets a "global vision", if you will, of this glory of God. Isaiah sees it himself, but then he is speaking of a time when not only will it be him and the other holy men, but one day everyone will see. He is speaking of a universal realization of this "light of God". Perhaps it will be easier to see a more "non-literal" a-mil type of interpretation if we understand more of the big topical picture Isaiah is trying to get across. Let's see what is written right after Isaiah 2:3-4:

O house of Jacob, come and let us walk
In the light of the LORD. - Isaiah 2:5

What is the light He is speaking of? If you do a word study on "light" in Isaiah, you will see some verses describing the Messiah. The mystery is, however, that they could not obtain this light because Jesus hadn't incarnated yet. Jesus is the fulfillment of this light according to the many quotations of Isaiah in the new Testament (see Isaiah 9:2 for an example). There is a larger picture Isaiah is trying to get across and it is about the Messiah's coming and reigning which will bring about a universal recognition of His reign currently, but a future universal consummation of that reign whenever that happens.

What does He say after verse 5? He gives a description of the people's waywardness and lack of faith (Isa 2:6-10). Then, he gives the explanation of what will happen during that day being referred to.

The lofty looks of man shall be humbled,
The haughtiness of men shall be bowed down,
And the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. - Isaiah 2:11

Is this not what Jesus came to do? John the Baptist prepared the people to become humbled, and Jesus preached and instituted the kingdom of humility, and now, after the Holy Spirit being poured out, it is being realized in the lives of all true disciples of Jesus. This day has come now!

Now, I understand that this is solely a non-literal interpretation of these things. But this is really what it all hinges upon. Amillenialism is based upon methods of interpretation. Everything really does hinge upon how we look at and interpret these passages. Either way we look at it, whether a future peaceful kingdom, or a current expanding kingdom, the Holy Spirit is faithful to humble our hearts before Jesus, and that's what matters! He'll come on the appointed day and we'll understand it all then!

[Mellontes]

As a full preterist, my response may be rejected out of hand but I will try to respond with non-full preterist thoughts...

In Isaiah 2:1, the prophecy is concerning Judah and Jerusalem...

Isaiah 2:1 - The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

Immediately after the poster's context (Isaiah 2:3 and 4), this is what Isaiah says:

Isaiah 2:5 - O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

It seems to me that the context is Jewish. I think that is where the main emphasis is to be. Certainly Gentiles were to be received as well, but not until the house of Israel was first given the opportunity (Matthew 10:6; 15:24; Acts 2:36; 7:42; Hebrews 8:8,10)

Those two verses from Hebrews simply point back to the covenant promise in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

The kingdom promise was to be taken from old covenant Judaism and given to a specific "nation":

Matthew 21:43 - Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

And which nation was it given to?

1 Peter 2:9 - But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

And who was Peter's audience?

1 Peter 1:1 - Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

...which was the diaspora, unless we understand Peter's ministry to be to the Gentiles?

Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:10 - But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

And now a full-preterist thought...

If the Jews have not yet received the promise, then neither is it possible for us to have received it.

[thrombomodulin]

RICHinCHRIST, Mellontes,

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to reply - I have found both of your answers were very helpful.

[Mellontes]

RICHinCHRIST, Mellontes,

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to reply - I have found both of your answers were very helpful.

You are quite welcome, brother. Anytime...