Confession

[Singalphile]

Robbyyoung, I'm writing from work and phone, but I want to respond briefly so you don't "worry" about it. Steve is essentially correct in this case. Though I should have used a less loaded sort of phrase, I did mean, "Don't stress out over it." That is, avoid obsession, confusion, or frustration. Thank you.

[robbyyoung]

Robbyyoung, I'm writing from work and phone, but I want to respond briefly so you don't "worry" about it. Steve is essentially correct in this case. Though I should have used a less loaded sort of phrase, I did mean, "Don't stress out over it." That is, avoid obsession, confusion, or frustration. Thank you.

Hi Singalphile,

I'm at work too, and I'm trying to type fast and account for my thoughts at the same time during my breaks . I'll address Steve's comments, in part, as well. I was addressing your comment from the fururist perspective, not a preterist. Of course if you're faithfull in Christ you need not worry about anything, however, to be faithful in Christ means to honor the words of the prophet. If the prophet says to do/watch for this or that and you ignore it, the futurist may have a problem in that regard. As Steve rightly pointed out, as well as myself, the full preterist perspective is quite different regarding prophetic warnings.

Today the futurist saturate all media to the concern of prophecy. The Preterist agenda is that of appreciating the historical record.

[edited]

On second, third, etc... thought, I should have just asked you for clarification on the whole matter. My response to your post would have and could have been a whole lot better or possibly appropriate. In either case, I apologize to both you and Steve in my drive-by reply.

God Bless.

[Singalphile]

No problem at all. Thank you. It's a fine discussion.

I do tend to consider this topic (eschatology, so-called) to be a back-burner topic, at least as far as the details. But of course it's good to study all God-breathed Scripture, including what clearly pertains directly to other people or to so-called eschatology. My newer opinions, such as they are, about Revelation has been personally edifying and given me new found appreciation for it.

Myself, if there's anything I obsess about, it's about not obsessing about things. And if there's anything I have a strong opinion about, it's about not having many strong opinions. Kind of odd ... and perhaps something for me to temper.

[dizerner]

Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is... Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming--in the evening (Pre-Trib), at midnight (Mid-Trib), at the crowing of the rooster (Pre-Wrath), or in the morning (Post-Trib)-- lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!

[Choosethisday]

My wife and I, among other ways we serve, lead a small group study Wednesday nights. We have a strong aversion to practicing what many churches and other studies do, that being to push any particular view on a non essential. So for the last two studies we have used video based resources that work very hard not to advocate any particular viewpoint. As with most video based resources these videos are way too shallow for my taste. However, given the increasingly dumbed down American citizenry, including those in the Church, we have found this to work in getting people to actually think about the subjects we go through and hopefully to study the reading materials in depth. Our current study uses the video study, Four Views of the End Times and the companion textbook, End-Times Prophecy. The author is Timothy Paul Jones and both are published by Rose Publishing.

I bring this up because while I consider Steve's Four Views book possibly the best unbiased book on Revelation I think this study to be possibly the best on eschatology in general while not being too involved for someone on a tight time schedule. As with Steve's book I can't tell what the author's view is. (If anyone knows his view please don't tell me). So if anyone is looking for a good resource that is not too involved I would highly recommend this one. My wife and I were the only ones not holding the dispensationalists view when first starting the course but now most of the students are at least reexamining their previous positions. If one is looking for a concise explanation of the different views of eschatology the book is a good one. I believe this to be one of those courses that should be required reading in evangelical circles.

[dizerner]

If you say "live right and you won't have to worry about it," that simply makes me wonder why the Bible makes such a big deal of being ready.

dizerner,

What is meant by "being ready," if not that we are to "live right and you won't have to worry about it"? Just curious.

Somehow I missed this. Well, you got me there... being ready is certainly living right, so I've given a circular reference. I'm beginning to realize, this seeming disdain for dispensationalism is the continued exaggerated extremes the church has so often taken it to. Always when something is abused the natural response is to swing the pendulum all the opposite way. I've definitely seen some of the abuse, but being a simple man who mostly gets doctrine straight from the Bible I would read "You also must be ready," and think "Wow, yea, I should be ready." Eschatology really was that simple for me. Should "being ready" be something on our mind, or should we not need to think about it since we can live right without it. Apparently, the way many Bible verses read, thinking about "being ready" is a powerful motivation to "live right." We get the illustrations of people being sleepy or disinterested with spiritual things, and a fearful Lord coming back to a bride or servant who has other things on his or her mind. Now if you can avoid those dangers without every thinking about your Lord returning, I suppose you don't need those Biblical admonitions—but I think they must have been written for someone, and not just first century Christians! Why Christ even makes the deliberate point that "what I say to you I say to all," all people of all time—be ready. Perhaps, since my Lord directly tells me this is important, I see it as integral part of living right, one that "living right" cannot ever be without. But if you can always "be ready" without ever thinking about being ready, you are a very godly man and one I wouldn't not presume to disagree with!

[dizerner]

I have read his doctoral dissertation, in which he argued for the late (Domitianic) date of Revelation. He seems like a genuine Christian gentleman, but his arguments were not persuasive.

They seem so to me—can you point me to any persuasive rebuttals?

[steve]

His arguments are treated in the introduction to my book, as well as the arguments for the earlier date. The reasons I don't find them persuasive is because they exhibit all the weaknesses that I mention and analyze there. It is not my interest to rewrite that chapter of my book and post it here. The arguments are too numerous, and the counterarguments too involved. However, his arguments were standard ones, which I think fail to prove their intended point.

[dizerner]

Thanks steve, I own a copy and have checked it out.