What passage or passages would you use to confirm that?Benaiah wrote:I am not a full preterist and I firmly believe in the literal physical return of Christ and I believe that the physical resurrection is yet future. that said I also firmly believe that Matt 24 has NOTHING to do with the second coming.
Matthew 24: 1-44 Question
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_rvornberg
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Benaiah, thanks for that. Can you address this though?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
It takes a lot of spiritualizing of the words of our Lord --- a lot of "apocalypticizing", to see the last words of Matthew 24 as speaking of the destruction of Jesusalem in A.D.70
27 For as the lightning [should be translated "lighting"] comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
When the lighting of the sun comes from the east and shines to the west, every one knows it. How many people know about the "coming" of Christ in A.D. 79?
28 Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;
30 then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory;
Did all the tribes of the earth see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven in A.D. 70?
31 and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
In what sense were his elect gathered in A.D. 70?
32 "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.
34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.
Verse 34 is supposed to be proof that these events could not be yet future to us. But the Greek word "genea" means not only "generation" as we understand it today, but to a people of the same stock or family. Does not "this generation" refer to the biologically Jewish people?
Consider the following passage:
"For this reason also the wisdom of God said, ‘I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.’
Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering."
When He left there, the scribes and the Pharisees began to be very hostile and to question Him closely on many subjects, plotting against Him to catch Him in something He might say. Luke 11:49-54
Does it make any sense that the blood of all the slain prophets in the past should be charged to "this generation" in the sense of the people living at that time? How about it being charged to Israelites of all ages who rejected the rule of God and His Messiah, such as the scribes and Pharisees who were being addressed by Jesus in that day?
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
37 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
39 and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
40 Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.
42 Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
Who were taken away in the days of Noah? All the wicked who were "swept away" by the flood. Who were left ?--- a handful of righteous people. Who were taken away in A.D. 70.? Were all those Jews who starved really wicked people? Who were the handful of righteous people who were left? Certainly not those few who escaped from Jerusalem. They were not "left". They had to flee.
43 But know this, that if the householder had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have let his house be broken into.
44 Therefore you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time?
46 Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing.
47 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
48 But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed,’
49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eats and drinks with the drunken,
50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know,
51 and will punish him, and put him with the hypocrites; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.
Is not the place where "men weep and gnash their teeth" Gehenna?
Notice that Christ's discourse continues into chapter 25:
1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be compared to ten maidens who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise.
3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them;
4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps.
5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6 But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’
7 Then all those maidens rose and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’
9 But the wise replied, ‘Perhaps there will not be enough for us and for you; go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast; and the door was shut.
11 Afterward the other maidens came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’
12 But he replied, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.
We're now into the marriage feast of the lamb, after His return. Or can this be interpreted in the light of chapter 24?
And so the subject of Christ's return continues until:
31 "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
33 and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.
34 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’
40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’
41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
Still no change of subject. The subject is still the coming of Christ, and the judgment that will take place when He comes.
27 For as the lightning [should be translated "lighting"] comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
When the lighting of the sun comes from the east and shines to the west, every one knows it. How many people know about the "coming" of Christ in A.D. 79?
28 Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;
30 then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory;
Did all the tribes of the earth see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven in A.D. 70?
31 and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
In what sense were his elect gathered in A.D. 70?
32 "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.
34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.
Verse 34 is supposed to be proof that these events could not be yet future to us. But the Greek word "genea" means not only "generation" as we understand it today, but to a people of the same stock or family. Does not "this generation" refer to the biologically Jewish people?
Consider the following passage:
"For this reason also the wisdom of God said, ‘I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.’
Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering."
When He left there, the scribes and the Pharisees began to be very hostile and to question Him closely on many subjects, plotting against Him to catch Him in something He might say. Luke 11:49-54
Does it make any sense that the blood of all the slain prophets in the past should be charged to "this generation" in the sense of the people living at that time? How about it being charged to Israelites of all ages who rejected the rule of God and His Messiah, such as the scribes and Pharisees who were being addressed by Jesus in that day?
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
37 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
39 and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
40 Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.
42 Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
Who were taken away in the days of Noah? All the wicked who were "swept away" by the flood. Who were left ?--- a handful of righteous people. Who were taken away in A.D. 70.? Were all those Jews who starved really wicked people? Who were the handful of righteous people who were left? Certainly not those few who escaped from Jerusalem. They were not "left". They had to flee.
43 But know this, that if the householder had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have let his house be broken into.
44 Therefore you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time?
46 Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing.
47 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
48 But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed,’
49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eats and drinks with the drunken,
50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know,
51 and will punish him, and put him with the hypocrites; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.
Is not the place where "men weep and gnash their teeth" Gehenna?
Notice that Christ's discourse continues into chapter 25:
1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be compared to ten maidens who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise.
3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them;
4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps.
5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.
6 But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’
7 Then all those maidens rose and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’
9 But the wise replied, ‘Perhaps there will not be enough for us and for you; go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast; and the door was shut.
11 Afterward the other maidens came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’
12 But he replied, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.
We're now into the marriage feast of the lamb, after His return. Or can this be interpreted in the light of chapter 24?
And so the subject of Christ's return continues until:
31 "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
33 and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.
34 Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’
40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’
41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
Still no change of subject. The subject is still the coming of Christ, and the judgment that will take place when He comes.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Jesus himself spoke of His return directly and indirectly.rvornberg wrote:Benaiah, thanks for that. Can you address this though?
What passage or passages would you use to confirm that?Benaiah wrote:I am not a full preterist and I firmly believe in the literal physical return of Christ and I believe that the physical resurrection is yet future. that said I also firmly believe that Matt 24 has NOTHING to do with the second coming.
Joh 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
The angels who appeared spoke to the disciples at Jesus ascension.Joh 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
Joh 5:29 "and come forth; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Act 1:11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."
And Paul Spoke of the Coming of the Lord when the dead would be raised and the living transformed.
Matt 24 contains instructions about FLEEING, one cannot flee the second coming. instructions to flee to the mountains make no sense if what is in view is the second coming.1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
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Reason:
Reason:
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_rvornberg
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Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light.
Mat 10:13 "If the house is worthy, give it your {blessing of} peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your {blessing of} peace.
Mat 10:14 "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.
Mat 10:15 "Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for {the} land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light.
Paidion wrote:28 Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;
30 then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory;
Did all the tribes of the earth see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven in A.D. 70?
Though I don't see with a 21 first century mind how it could be fulfilled, I also have to keep in mind that similar laungage was used in other passages. See IS 13:10 above.me on June 15 wrote:So with that said, I'm still having a tough time seeing it as a future fulfillment. I for sure don't see how it could be fulfilled in that day, but maybe the Full Preterist are on to something... I don't know. Or just maybe the Futurist have some good points.
I won't say it is impossible for Him to be speaking of a future "generation," but the context sure wouldn't make sense. He keeps telling them about something and warning them???Paidion wrote:Verse 34 is supposed to be proof that these events could not be yet future to us. But the Greek word "genea" means not only "generation" as we understand it today, but to a people of the same stock or family. Does not "this generation" refer to the biologically Jewish people?
Well actually yeah sort of:Paidion wrote:"For this reason also the wisdom of God said, ‘I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.’
Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering."
When He left there, the scribes and the Pharisees began to be very hostile and to question Him closely on many subjects, plotting against Him to catch Him in something He might say. Luke 11:49-54
Does it make any sense that the blood of all the slain prophets in the past should be charged to "this generation" in the sense of the people living at that time? How about it being charged to Israelites of all ages who rejected the rule of God and His Messiah, such as the scribes and Pharisees who were being addressed by Jesus in that day?
Mat 10:13 "If the house is worthy, give it your {blessing of} peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your {blessing of} peace.
Mat 10:14 "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.
Mat 10:15 "Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for {the} land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.
Good point.Paidion wrote:Who were taken away in the days of Noah? All the wicked who were "swept away" by the flood. Who were left ?--- a handful of righteous people. Who were taken away in A.D. 70.? Were all those Jews who starved really wicked people? Who were the handful of righteous people who were left? Certainly not those few who escaped from Jerusalem. They were not "left". They had to flee.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
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_rvornberg
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Good point there, but reading the history sure doesn't seem like people were being married and given in marriage; sounds like a lot of turmoil was happening. It wasn't what this passage describes:Benaiah wrote:Matt 24 contains instructions about FLEEING, one cannot flee the second coming. instructions to flee to the mountains make no sense if what is in view is the second coming.
Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Mat 24:37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Mat 24:38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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_rvornberg
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BTW... Paidion what's next, an ultrasound picture? 
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Prophecy IS Spiritual and not carnal and how does scripture tell us to interpret spiritual things?It takes a lot of spiritualizing of the words of our Lord --- a lot of "apocalypticizing", to see the last words of Matthew 24 as speaking of the destruction of Jesusalem in A.D.70
1Co 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
I guess Jesus was "spiritualizing" Malachi when he told the disciples that John the baptist WAS Elijah.
and Matthew must have been "spiritualizing"
Mat 2:15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, "Out of Egypt I called My Son."
the prophet referred to is Hosea. Hos 11:1 "When Israel was a child, I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son.
Verse 27 is connected tot eh verses that preceed it. this is even more clear in the parralell passage in luke.27 For as the lightning [should be translated "lighting"] comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
When the lighting of the sun comes from the east and shines to the west, every one knows it. How many people know about the "coming" of Christ in A.D. 79?
verse 27 is NOT talking about the "speed" of the coming of the son of man. it is talking about how even when you cannot see where the lightning strike was you can tell there was lightning because the entire sky is lit up by it. just as they wont be able to point and say "there is the kingdom" or "there is Jesus" so is the coming of the son of man. and his rule and dominion over the nations of the earth. Jesus rule and his kingdom will not be localized in a particualr geographical area and the effects of Christ rule and dominion will be seen just as the lightning which shines and illuminates the whole sky.Mat 24:26 "Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.
Mat 24:27 "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
indeed they did. but not if you interpret this verse to mean that everyone everywhere saw a smiling Jesus descending on fluffy charmin soft clouds drifting down to earth.( something that would have never even crossed the mind of any of Jesus orginal audience, they fuly understood what was meant by coming int he clouds) putting Jesus words in their proper OT context we can see that God repeatedly stated that His judgments against citie, nations, and Israel itself were performed in the "Sight" of the nations. so that they would all "See" his power and glory.Did all the tribes of the earth see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven in A.D. 70?
Lev 26:45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.'"
Psa 98:2 The LORD has made known His salvation; His righteousness He has revealed in the sight of the nations.
Eze 5:8 "therefore thus says the Lord GOD: 'Indeed I, even I, am against you and will execute judgments in your midst in the sight of the nations.
Eze 39:27 'When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations,
in the sense that the word "angelos" is used of human meesaengers as well as angelic beings. in BOTH the OT and the NT. and after the destruction of Jerusalem his messengers did indeed go forth to gather the elect and are still gathering them by the same means. thru the preaching of the Gospel.31 and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
In what sense were his elect gathered in A.D. 70?
the rendering of "this generation" to mean the biological Jewish people of all time is simply ignorant. and not even worthy of a response.Verse 34 is supposed to be proof that these events could not be yet future to us. But the Greek word "genea" means not only "generation" as we understand it today, but to a people of the same stock or family. Does not "this generation" refer to the biologically Jewish people?
now who is "spiritualizing?" the problem is Jesus used the words "this generation over and over throughout his ministry and He was obviously referring tot he generation of his day. and YES it does make sense that the blood of the righteous would be held to the account of the ones who refused to enter in tot he New covenant and instead persecuted and killed those who did.Does it make any sense that the blood of all the slain prophets in the past should be charged to "this generation" in the sense of the people living at that time? How about it being charged to Israelites of all ages who rejected the rule of God and His Messiah, such as the scribes and Pharisees who were being addressed by Jesus in that day?
and noah did not have to "flee" into the safety of the ark? the word flee does not mean RUN. it means ESCAPE. and noah did indeed ESCAPE the flood by entering intot he ark just as Lot escaped the destruction of sodom by fleeing the city and the plain. and who ESCAPED the destruction of Jerusalem? it was the ones who fled Jerusalem because they heeded Jesus words.Who were taken away in the days of Noah? All the wicked who were "swept away" by the flood. Who were left ?--- a handful of righteous people. Who were taken away in A.D. 70.? Were all those Jews who starved really wicked people? Who were the handful of righteous people who were left? Certainly not those few who escaped from Jerusalem. They were not "left". They had to flee.
it si also the place where those who are put out of the kingdom weep and gnash their teeth. the term gnash thier teeth is an interesting study. you will find that in scripture the "gnashing of teeth is not used to denote someone being punished but rather denoting the wicked who "gnash" thier teeth at the righteous.Is not the place where "men weep and gnash their teeth" Gehenna?
Act 7:54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth.
Psa 112:10 The wicked will see it and be grieved; He will gnash his teeth and melt away; The desire of the wicked shall perish.
Job 16:9 He tears me in His wrath, and hates me; He gnashes at me with His teeth; My adversary sharpens His gaze on me.
Psa 37:12 The wicked plots against the just, And gnashes at him with his teeth.
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Reason:
Reason:
Notice that Jesus refers to the DAYS (plural) of Noah. he is obviously speaking of a prolonged period of time in which the wicked go about life as normal just as the wicked did in the days of noah and the days of sodom. right up until it was too late to do anything but perish in the destruction. once the roman armies surrounded Jerusalem it was to late for the wicked and unbeliving jews to flee to safety away from Jerusalem those that tried were either killed by the zealots or captured by the romans and crucified. Josephus tells us that during the seige of Jerusalem the romans crucified 500 jews a day outside the walls of Jerusalem until there was no place left to even put another cross.rvornberg wrote:Good point there, but reading the history sure doesn't seem like people were being married and given in marriage; sounds like a lot of turmoil was happening. It wasn't what this passage describes:Benaiah wrote:Matt 24 contains instructions about FLEEING, one cannot flee the second coming. instructions to flee to the mountains make no sense if what is in view is the second coming.
Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Mat 24:37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Mat 24:38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
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_psychohmike
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Luke 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Revelation 11:2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.
And I think this is where the partial preterist falls into a tailspin of inconsistency. They say that the events of Revelation through chapter 19 are about the fall of Jerusalem. But yet they say that the times of the gentiles started in the first century and is still in force.
Would someone please explain to me how 42 months = 2000+ years. And I don't think that 2 Peter 3 or anything in the Psalms apply here.
Mike
Revelation 11:2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.
And I think this is where the partial preterist falls into a tailspin of inconsistency. They say that the events of Revelation through chapter 19 are about the fall of Jerusalem. But yet they say that the times of the gentiles started in the first century and is still in force.
Would someone please explain to me how 42 months = 2000+ years. And I don't think that 2 Peter 3 or anything in the Psalms apply here.
Mike
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Soon means later, Near means far, and at hand means countless thousands of years off in the future.
Hermeneutics 101, Dallas Theological Seminary
Hermeneutics 101, Dallas Theological Seminary
I can't speak for Partial preterists but I would point out that the times of the gentiles DID begin in the first century AD. and if you look closely the passage in revelation does NOT say that the times of the gentiles is 42 months. it says, They will tread the HOLY CITY underfoot for 42 months. not that the times of the gentiles is only 42 months long. and the 42 months corresponds with the begining of the jewish-roman war and the fall of Jerusalem.psychohmike wrote:Luke 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Revelation 11:2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.
And I think this is where the partial preterist falls into a tailspin of inconsistency. They say that the events of Revelation through chapter 19 are about the fall of Jerusalem. But yet they say that the times of the gentiles started in the first century and is still in force.
Would someone please explain to me how 42 months = 2000+ years. And I don't think that 2 Peter 3 or anything in the Psalms apply here.
Mike
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason: