That 70th week

[Guest]

I've heard it said that since there are still sins that God has not yet made and end of sins. This will not happen until all power and authority have been destroyed per 1 Cor 15. I disagree with this interpretation, but it's out there.

This is a topic of great interest to me, since a gap anywhere in the time specific 70 weeks prophecy is so illogical. Perhaps something from a post I made to a similar topic in another forum might be relevant.

I am not a Greek or Hebrew scholar, so I could be wrong...
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"...to make an end of sins..."

Sins (H2403)
חטּאת חטּאה
chaṭṭâ'âh chaṭṭâ'th (khat-taw-aw', khat-tawth')
From H2398; an offence (sometimes habitual sinfulness), and its penalty, occasion, sacrifice, or expiation; also (concretely) an offender: - punishment (of sin), purifying (-fication for sin), sin (-ner, offering).

It should be noted that according to Strong's, the Hebrew word "chatta'ah" (Strong's 02403), translated "sins" in Daniel 9:24 is also translated as "sin offering" 116 times in the KJV translation.

From the definition of the Hebrew word "chatta'ah" (Strong's 02403), it makes sense that the "end of sins" from Daniel 9:27 is not an end to man's ability to sin. What is ended is the inevitable connection of "an offence (sometimes habitual sinfulness) and its penalty, occasion, sacrifice, or expiation."

Spiritual death is the penalty for sin. The "sin and then make a sacrifice" system of the law was only a faint shadow of God's final solution. Jesus' death on the cross ended the system of "sin and sacrifice". According to Jesus' last words on the cross, "It is finished." No more sacrifices or "sin offerings" were needed or would be accepted. The veil was ripped from top to bottom in the temple built by the hands of men. It should be remembered that, "a great many of the priests" came to understand what had happened:

"The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith." Acts 6:7 (NASB)
*Red coloring mine.

Also, remember what John the Baptist said, The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" John 1:29 (NASB)

Everyone seems to agree that Jesus was crucified after the 69th week of years. Why is it so hard to believe that what was done in that final sacrifice for sin which was ordained by God should include fulfillment of prophecy in the 70th week of years?

It makes no sense to believe Jesus was crucified at the beginning of an unmentioned time gap of unmentioned duration which is not part of the 70 sevens of years prophetically ordained. If any part of the 70 sevens of years prophecy given to Daniel was fullfilled when Jesus was crucified and it happened during the 70th week of years, then the prophecy must be completely fulfilled with no illogical time gap.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[Guest]

...If I am going to study this in an unbiased manner, then I need to collect the best arguments for each side...

What I consider to be a good source for a logical understanding on fulfillment of the six predicted items can be read at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/9170/MAURO4-3.HTM

It is in CHAPTER 3 of an online copy of The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation by Philip Mauro.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[Guest]

What I consider to be a good source for a logical understanding on fulfillment of the six predicted items can be read at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/9170/MAURO4-3.HTM

Thanks for the tip, Lazarus. I'm still reading through it ...

peace,

dane

[_Rick_C]

Chiming in.

From ESV:
Dan 9:24 "Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place."

I've noticed that many, (including the link Laz gave, and ones I've found), see "to put an end to sin" as what happened in the atoning work of our Lord on the cross. While it is certainly true that the Lord did do this on our behalf, I'm not convinced "to put an end to sin" in verse is conveys this idea.

Rather, I see a plain reading which means: "The decreed time of transgression/sinning will come to an end." In other words, God had determined the length of time the transgression/sinning would last. (Reading more into the text than is there makes it confusing).

I could, and do, "locate" the atoning work of our Lord in the second part of the verse in that He died for our sins, his kingdom being initiated, at which time everlasting righteousness was established. However, when Jesus said, "It is finished" he meant the work the Father had sent him to do was completed.

But his work isn't the "decreed time of sinning and transgression" which the Father {Ancient of Days} had appointed for the Jews to complete first (is what I'm chiming-in on). See what I'm saying?

[Guest]

I could, and do, "locate" the atoning work of our Lord in the second part of the verse in that He died for our sins, his kingdom being initiated, and everlasting righteousness established. However, when Jesus said, "It is finished" he meant the work the Father had sent him to do was completed.

Rick ... does this mean you do not see the 70th week as having been expired - but you see it as still future?

peace,

dane

[_Rick_C]

Post edited, Mar. 5th, 2008

Hi Dane, I was editing my post when you posted.

Expired.

I don't see "to make an end of sins" as a reference to Christ's atoning work (as many, if not most do). I see it as the divinely appointed [length of] time of the transgression; that this particular "time of sinning" would come to an end by God's decree.

"To finish the transgression," [and] "To make an end of sins," are two ways of describing one and the same thing.

The Jewish nation, as a whole, would transgress {sin} till the decreed period of time would be finished---in which God would, in the meantime---send His son, {calling all Israel to repentance in the Person of His son: Messiah's kingdom's arrival}.

Even though this time was decreed to have a certain fixed length; God, as always, was still calling the Jews to repentance in the meantime! "I've set a fixed time for you to repent and end your sinning, to put a finish to your transgressions! But I won't leave you (as a nation) alone. I will send your Messiah!"

And, as we know, the repentant and/or faithful remnant were looking for Jesus when he came! Seen like this, the repentant remnant can be seen as hastening the Messiah's coming, even though the nation as a whole had not repented. Apparently, there were just enough people in the remnant for God to send Jesus. Make sense?

[Guest]

...And, as we know, the repentant and/or faithful remnant were looking for Jesus when he came! Seen like this, the repentant remnant can be seen as hastening the Messiah's coming, even though the nation as a whole had not repented. Apparently, there were just enough people in the remnant for God to send Jesus. Make sense?

I do not think the number of the repentant remnant can be seen as hastening the Messiah's coming. The time for the Messiah's coming was set in place for all to know. At the right time, priests and Levites were sent out by the Pharisees to question John.

John 1:19-24 (NASB)
John 1:19 This is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?"
John 1:20 And he confessed and did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Christ."
John 1:21 They asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."
John 1:22 Then they said to him, "Who are you, so that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?"
John 1:23 He said, "I am A VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS, 'MAKE STRAIGHT THE WAY OF THE LORD,' as Isaiah the prophet said."
John 1:24 Now they had been sent from the Pharisees.

[_Rick_C]

Hi Laz, Regarding the "hastening" I had this in mind....

From Daniel's Prayer (NIV)
]9:5 "Now, O Lord our God, who brought your people out of Egypt with a mighty hand and who made for yourself a name that endures to this day, we have sinned, we have done wrong. 16 O Lord, in keeping with all your righteous acts, turn away your anger and your wrath from Jerusalem, your city, your holy hill. Our sins and the iniquities of our fathers have made Jerusalem and your people an object of scorn to all those around us.

17 "Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, O Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. 18 Give ear, O God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. 19 O Lord, listen! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, hear and act! For your sake, O my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name."

The Angel Gabriel Responds to Daniel

9:20 While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the LORD my God for his holy hill- 21 while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. 22 He instructed me and said to me, "Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. 23 As soon as you began to pray, an answer was given, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the message and understand the vision:24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.

25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

It seems that Daniel's prayer was not only heard but that it actually hastened the coming of the Messiah: Gabriel assured him his prayers would be answered! Daniel wasn't the only Jew who was seeking and praying for the rebuilding of Jerusalem and anticipating the Messiah's coming (was all I meant to say). Anyways, thanks.

[Guest]

Hi Laz, Regarding the "hastening" I had this in mind....

...It seems that Daniel's prayer was not only heard but that it actually hastened the coming of the Messiah: Gabriel assured him his prayers would be answered! Daniel wasn't the only Jew who was seeking and praying for the rebuilding of Jerusalem and anticipating the Messiah's coming (was all I meant to say). Anyways, thanks.

I am sorry, I think I misunderstood your post. I thought you were referring to a remnant at the end of the 69 sevens of years. Perhaps there could have been an unmentioned remnant of the faithful who also prayed as Daniel prayed. I do not know. We do know that Daniel's prayer was heard and answered.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[Guest]

featheredprop:

back to your original post (I don't have time to review all the others, so sorry if this is redundant):

Here is a passage off the top of my head that I think bolsters a 1st Century fulfillment of the purposes of the 70 7s:

1)
2)
3) everlasting righteousness:

1 Cor. 1:30
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

4)
5)
6)

I'll think about it and try and add some.