Anyway, I applaud all your efforts in attempting to work with the dispies. Zionism must be destroyed before it destroys both our countries!
Zionism must be destroyed? What does this mean exactly, i wonder? Has it occurred to you that dispensationalism is a bible interpretation not necessarily anything to do with Zionism?
Has it occured to you that your bible interpretation may be wrong? I know you sound positive that the way you see eschatology must be correct but many dispensationists are very smart people and have heard your arguments and disagree, not because they are Zionists but because they disagree with your interpretations.
Others like myself are historicists but i think it's possible God did have a hand in Israel's rebirth for his own reasons, but that view would conflict with your mantra "Zionism must be destroyed."
Changing focus
Re: Changing focus
What does "Zionism must be destroyed" mean? It means that the WRONG attitude toward the Middle East must cease. Israelis are killing Palestinian Christians and both our countries support Israel at all costs. Even the American military understands the problems of an "Support Israel" view based upon dispensational understandings. I am trying to locate an article written by a general of the army in this regard...I will post it should I be able to find it.steve7150 wrote:Anyway, I applaud all your efforts in attempting to work with the dispies. Zionism must be destroyed before it destroys both our countries!
Zionism must be destroyed? What does this mean exactly, i wonder? Has it occurred to you that dispensationalism is a bible interpretation not necessarily anything to do with Zionism?
Has it occured to you that your bible interpretation may be wrong? I know you sound positive that the way you see eschatology must be correct but many dispensationists are very smart people and have heard your arguments and disagree, not because they are Zionists but because they disagree with your interpretations.
Others like myself are historicists but i think it's possible God did have a hand in Israel's rebirth for his own reasons, but that view would conflict with your mantra "Zionism must be destroyed."
"Mantra"...lol
If dispensationalists were smart people indeed, they wouldn't be dispensationalists...
You say Israel had a rebirth. When, where and according to what Scriptures?
I never even hinted that the dispensational disagreement of my eschatology is rooted in Zionism. Besides, I never spoke of my eschatology in this thread. It seems like you are harboring resentment...
I will get back to you (and others if need be) concerning that military article, then you can write the general himself...
Blessings!
P.S. - Sorry Doug...
Re: Changing focus
What does "Zionism must be destroyed" mean? It means that the WRONG attitude toward the Middle East must cease. Israelis are killing Palestinian Christians and both our countries support Israel at all costs. Even the American military understands the problems of an "Support Israel" view based upon dispensational understandings. I am trying to locate an article written by a general of the army in this regard...I will post it should I be able to find it.
"Mantra"...lol
If dispensationalists were smart people indeed, they wouldn't be dispensationalists...
You say Israel had a rebirth. When, where and according to what Scriptures?
Zionism means the wrong attitude? Israeli soldiers killing Christians, where is this happening? In Israel or in the Palistenean territory and why would'nt it be all over the news? Is it a media conspiracy to hide it? Why would Israel want to kill Christians? Are Christians lobbing rockets into towns near the gaza strip? According to you no dispensationalists are smart people, Hmm is this the charitable attitude Paul was talking about in Romans toward people you would consider , not smart.
As far as Israel's rebirth i said it was a possibility and we both know any scripture i give you , you won't accept. The thought i have in mind is from Deut where Moses says to Israel that God will punish them 7 times and eject them from the land. They lost dominion over Israel around 586BC and 7 years , with the day for a year principal would be 360 years x7 = 2,520 years , which comes to 1934 , not far from 1948.
I know you will reject this outright and call it self serving but it's not that much different then the Dan 9.27 prophecy.
So you don't think a single dispensationalist is smart? Not one? Not John Macarthur, not Norman Geisler? Not one?
"Mantra"...lol
If dispensationalists were smart people indeed, they wouldn't be dispensationalists...
You say Israel had a rebirth. When, where and according to what Scriptures?
Zionism means the wrong attitude? Israeli soldiers killing Christians, where is this happening? In Israel or in the Palistenean territory and why would'nt it be all over the news? Is it a media conspiracy to hide it? Why would Israel want to kill Christians? Are Christians lobbing rockets into towns near the gaza strip? According to you no dispensationalists are smart people, Hmm is this the charitable attitude Paul was talking about in Romans toward people you would consider , not smart.
As far as Israel's rebirth i said it was a possibility and we both know any scripture i give you , you won't accept. The thought i have in mind is from Deut where Moses says to Israel that God will punish them 7 times and eject them from the land. They lost dominion over Israel around 586BC and 7 years , with the day for a year principal would be 360 years x7 = 2,520 years , which comes to 1934 , not far from 1948.
I know you will reject this outright and call it self serving but it's not that much different then the Dan 9.27 prophecy.
So you don't think a single dispensationalist is smart? Not one? Not John Macarthur, not Norman Geisler? Not one?
Re: Changing focus
steve7150 wrote:Zionism means the wrong attitude? Israeli soldiers killing Christians, where is this happening? In Israel or in the Palistenean territory and why would'nt it be all over the news? Is it a media conspiracy to hide it? Why would Israel want to kill Christians?
It is quite apparent that you are favorable to the Zionist movement. If you were informed of the real situation going on over there and not just listening to the pro-Israel media, you would understand all that I am saying in regards to Zionism. Perhaps others understand also but are unwilling to defend my view lest they be mistaken as an ally for full-preterism. That would be too bad.
I finally found the link I was looking for. I was wrong when I said it was a general that had written it. He was a major.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD ... tTRDoc.pdf
I am going to set up a thread devoted to Zionism and the misinformation that North America is receiving...people need to be informed!
Re: Changing focus
"Huh???? What are those????"Happy New Year, Allyn! you wrote:Hi Rick,
I get that "little puppy turns its head sideways"look when I speak to amillers about full-preterism, LOL. Good to see you brother.
(gtsy too, Bro Allyn)!
Re: Changing focus
It is quite apparent that you are favorable to the Zionist movement. If you were informed of the real situation going on over there and not just listening to the pro-Israel media, you would understand all that I am saying in regards to Zionism. Perhaps others understand also but are unwilling to defend my view lest they be mistaken as an ally for full-preterism. That would be too bad.
Yes i'm jewish and i think jews should have a homeland and if any Christians are actually being killed by Israeli soldiers then these soldiers are criminals and s/b prosecuted severely.
However you seem to be black or white on these issues, your conclusions were
Dispensationalists are not smart, not one
The entire media is pro-Israel
Israeli soldiers are killing Christians
Zionist movement you seem to portray as something evil
People may be afraid to defend your view because they are afraid of seeming to be allies of full-preterism
Here is my opinion,
I'm not dispensational but many of them are plenty smart
The media is very diverse and with the internet and cable there are hundreds of outlets, so they are not pro-anything.
Israeli soldiers killing Christians , i find it very unlikely but if any of this is true it's serious criminal activity that s/b severly punished.
Zionist movement is no different then any ethnic group desiring their own country.
I can't imagine anyone is afraid of being accussed of a full-preterist, that s/b their biggest fear in life.
Yes i'm jewish and i think jews should have a homeland and if any Christians are actually being killed by Israeli soldiers then these soldiers are criminals and s/b prosecuted severely.
However you seem to be black or white on these issues, your conclusions were
Dispensationalists are not smart, not one
The entire media is pro-Israel
Israeli soldiers are killing Christians
Zionist movement you seem to portray as something evil
People may be afraid to defend your view because they are afraid of seeming to be allies of full-preterism
Here is my opinion,
I'm not dispensational but many of them are plenty smart
The media is very diverse and with the internet and cable there are hundreds of outlets, so they are not pro-anything.
Israeli soldiers killing Christians , i find it very unlikely but if any of this is true it's serious criminal activity that s/b severly punished.
Zionist movement is no different then any ethnic group desiring their own country.
I can't imagine anyone is afraid of being accussed of a full-preterist, that s/b their biggest fear in life.
Re: Changing focus
Whether they are killing Christians or not, the Palistinian Christians, a minority of a minority, have long lamented the lack of concern that Christians in the US have for them. They are our brothers and sisters, the unbelieving Jews are not. That the Palistinian Christians have endured much suffering and unjust treatment is beyond question.Israelis are killing Palestinian Christians and both our countries support Israel at all costs.
Our former pastor, now retired, once took a tourist trip to Israel. He was sympathetic to the cause of the Jews. A few years later, he travelled to Ramalla as part of a mission to help poor Palistinian children. After being in the company of ordinary Palistinians, he came home appalled by the contemptuous treatment he and his Palistinian companions received at the hands of Israelis. His favoritism for the Jews was gone.
Why? Why can they not live among gentiles? They seem to be welcome and do quite well in the US. They are free and generally prosperous are they not?Yes i'm jewish and i think jews should have a homeland
Re: Changing focus
steve7150 wrote:It is quite apparent that you are favorable to the Zionist movement. If you were informed of the real situation going on over there and not just listening to the pro-Israel media, you would understand all that I am saying in regards to Zionism. Perhaps others understand also but are unwilling to defend my view lest they be mistaken as an ally for full-preterism. That would be too bad.
Yes i'm jewish and i think jews should have a homeland and if any Christians are actually being killed by Israeli soldiers then these soldiers are criminals and s/b prosecuted severely.
However you seem to be black or white on these issues, your conclusions were
Dispensationalists are not smart, not one
The entire media is pro-Israel
Israeli soldiers are killing Christians
Zionist movement you seem to portray as something evil
People may be afraid to defend your view because they are afraid of seeming to be allies of full-preterism
Here is my opinion,
I'm not dispensational but many of them are plenty smart
The media is very diverse and with the internet and cable there are hundreds of outlets, so they are not pro-anything.
Israeli soldiers killing Christians , i find it very unlikely but if any of this is true it's serious criminal activity that s/b severly punished.
Zionist movement is no different then any ethnic group desiring their own country.
I can't imagine anyone is afraid of being accussed of a full-preterist, that s/b their biggest fear in life.
So if Jews should have a homeland then I think Catholics who become Baptists should have one as well. Why do I say it this way? Because Jews today are not a race of people but a variety of many ethnic origins who at one time in their ancestry became religious Jews through conversion to the religion, which is null and void since 70AD btw
Re: Changing focus
Yes i'm jewish and i think jews should have a homeland
Why? Why can they not live among gentiles? They seem to be welcome and do quite well in the US. They are free and generally prosperous are they not?
Because jewishness is both an ethnicity a religion and IMO a race and also a culture. The english and scots and hungarians and slavs etc have countries , why should'nt the jews.
It's true that the jews live well here now, but throughout history they have been persecuted and sometimes the target of extermination therefore this "evil" most likely has not suddenly disappeared so they desire a safe place.
I understand that Palistenian Christians are our brothers and should be treated fairly and if they have not been it's criminal. However all of Israel is not guilty and with regards to unbelieving jews not being our brothers, they are however human beings who have suffered greatly throughout history and simply want there own country , the same way every other ethnic group does. The same way the Puritans felt when they came here to flee from persecution.
Why? Why can they not live among gentiles? They seem to be welcome and do quite well in the US. They are free and generally prosperous are they not?
Because jewishness is both an ethnicity a religion and IMO a race and also a culture. The english and scots and hungarians and slavs etc have countries , why should'nt the jews.
It's true that the jews live well here now, but throughout history they have been persecuted and sometimes the target of extermination therefore this "evil" most likely has not suddenly disappeared so they desire a safe place.
I understand that Palistenian Christians are our brothers and should be treated fairly and if they have not been it's criminal. However all of Israel is not guilty and with regards to unbelieving jews not being our brothers, they are however human beings who have suffered greatly throughout history and simply want there own country , the same way every other ethnic group does. The same way the Puritans felt when they came here to flee from persecution.
Re: Changing focus
Just a thought but i wonder if some believers because they see dispensationalists supposedly favoring Israel feel they have to compensate for this and go in the opposite direction to make up for this.
Most dispensationals who favor Israel only do so because they believe it hastens Jesus return to the Mt of Olives while also believing 2/3 of the jews will die in the ensuing battle. So very little of this supposed favoritism toward Israel is out of any love for the unbelieving jews per se.
Most dispensationals who favor Israel only do so because they believe it hastens Jesus return to the Mt of Olives while also believing 2/3 of the jews will die in the ensuing battle. So very little of this supposed favoritism toward Israel is out of any love for the unbelieving jews per se.