Will a large revival precede the 2nd coming?

[Paidion]

...some years ago, I decided that this was what Jesus was doing, namely, paraphrasing Malachi's words as "Elijah surely comes first and restores all things."

But according to Matthew, Jesus said, "Elijah ... will restore all things." This is future tense.
So are you saying that the future tense was used with reference to Malachi's time rather than Jesus' time (even though Jesus uttered it in His time). If so, this seems odd. If you were quoting a prophecy from the Old Testament which had already been fulfilled, would you use the future tense when referring to that fulfillment, just because the future tense was used in the prophecy?

For example, suppose you were referring to the following...

Isaiah 53:11 ...and he shall bear their iniquities

and suppose you believe that Jesus fulfilled this prophecy when He died on the cross.

Would you say, "This scripture will be fulfilled. Jesus will come to earth and will die, and will bear the iniquities of all who will receive Him"?

[steve]

The quote would be in the future tense, as it is in Malachi.

[Mellontes]

The quote would be in the future tense, as it is in Malachi.

Steve,

That reminds me of a dispensationalist friend who insisted that Paul, when quoting Isaiah 11:10 in Romans 15:12, used the future tense to express something that was still future. I wrote back and asked him how Paul could QUOTE Isaiah by using a past tense? That would be misrepresentation...

The only reason my friend wanted to keep the future tense and NOT apply it to the first century as Paul had done was to keep his dispensational view of the millenium alive, where flesh-eating animals would supposedly return to eating straw, etc. It is too bad that my friend refuses to see the symbolism of the clean (Jew) and unclean (Gentile) animals in Isaiah 11...

[Mellontes]

...some years ago, I decided that this was what Jesus was doing, namely, paraphrasing Malachi's words as "Elijah surely comes first and restores all things."

But according to Matthew, Jesus said, "Elijah ... will restore all things." This is future tense.
So are you saying that the future tense was used with reference to Malachi's time rather than Jesus' time (even though Jesus uttered it in His time). If so, this seems odd. If you were quoting a prophecy from the Old Testament which had already been fulfilled, would you use the future tense when referring to that fulfillment, just because the future tense was used in the prophecy?

For example, suppose you were referring to the following...

Isaiah 53:11 ...and he shall bear their iniquities

and suppose you believe that Jesus fulfilled this prophecy when He died on the cross.

Would you say, "This scripture will be fulfilled. Jesus will come to earth and will die, and will bear the iniquities of all who will receive Him"?

I would do the same thing as Jesus did. I would quote the reference with the future tense intact. Then I would say that Jesus has already come to do that - just like Jesus quoted Malachi with the future tense intact and then show the fulfillment that Elijah had already come.

You can't quote the prophets properly if you remove the tense...

[psimmond]

Hey guys,
Thanks for the thorough response to my question about an end-times revival. (I also enjoyed the discussion about quoting prophesy )

[Jill]

.

[selah]

I've always believed that the world will become more and more ungodly leading up to the return of Christ; recently, however, I read that many believe there will be a huge revival prior to Christ's return.

Can anyone tell me where this revival view comes from.

Thanks,
Peter

The Seventh Day Adventist assumed the second coming, boasting an incredible revival back in august of 1844, resulting in an impending fall later referred to as: "The Great Disappointment".

hmmmm...I don't believe the Seventh Day Adventists "boast(ed) an incredible revival back in august of 1844," although of course, I could be wrong. From what I understand from what I've been taught, they boasted Jesus' (physical) return to the earth---I believe supposedly to arrive in October or November of 1844, and yes, when He did not come, the SDA people were greatly disappointed (because most had not harvested their crops, so they were hungry during that winter!) This experience became known as "The Great Disappointment" and later, the SDA people said Jesus did "come," but it was in a spiritual sense, that He came into the temple in heaven to judge humanity... (Do I have all of this history and theology correct? Not to mean that I believe the theology, but I mean, have I restated their history and beliefs accurately?)

Sometime during the past eleven years, I learned from a group of Christians that Joel 2 fortells of a great revival coming before Jesus comes. Specific verses regarding this are said to be Joel 2:28-32. I am not sure if these verses really are about the events leading to Jesus' second coming.

Personally, I consider it a possibility that both will happen---both a spiritual revival and at the same time, the ungodly becoming more and more wicked---

[Mellontes]

hmmmm...I don't believe the Seventh Day Adventists "boast(ed) an incredible revival back in august of 1844," although of course, I could be wrong. From what I understand from what I've been taught, they boasted Jesus' (physical) return to the earth---I believe supposedly to arrive in October or November of 1844, and yes, when He did not come, the SDA people were greatly disappointed (because most had not harvested their crops, so they were hungry during that winter!) This experience became known as "The Great Disappointment" and later, the SDA people said Jesus did "come," but it was in a spiritual sense, that He came into the temple in heaven to judge humanity... (Do I have all of this history and theology correct? Not to mean that I believe the theology, but I mean, have I restated their history and beliefs accurately?)

Sometime during the past eleven years, I learned from a group of Christians that Joel 2 fortells of a great revival coming before Jesus comes. Specific verses regarding this are said to be Joel 2:28-32. I am not sure if these verses really are about the events leading to Jesus' second coming.

Personally, I consider it a possibility that both will happen---both a spiritual revival and at the same time, the ungodly becoming more and more wicked---

Joel 2:28-32 was quoted by Peter on the day of Pentecost as a fulfillment way back then (except for verse 31 which still indicates a future day of the Lord in Malachi's "great and dreadful" fashion as being associated with John the Baptist) (Acts 2:16). A quick look at Joel 2:32 says that there is a "mount," a "city" and a "deliverance." At first glance it seems like a promise to the nation of Israel. But in fact it is a promise to the faithful remnant. Take a look a Hebrews 12:22-24...

Hebrews 12:22-24 - But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

It is Christians who come to this Mount Zion in this heavenly new Jerusalem via the new covenant in Jesus Christ.

And it is very sad for all those people who believe Jesus' coming was to occur any time after 70AD. All prophecies of this type have failed miserably and will continue to fail. Lives are affected by a wrong eschatology. People have quit their jobs, sold their homes, (and failed to gather in the harvest of crops) because of a wrong eschatology (failed predictions).

[steve7150]

and later, the SDA people said Jesus did "come," but it was in a spiritual sense, that He came into the temple in heaven to judge humanity... (Do I have all of this history and theology correct? Not to mean that I believe the theology, but I mean, have I restated their history and beliefs accurately?)








I may be wrong but i think it was the Millerites who predicted this date & afterwards some became 7 th day Adventists & some became Russelites and the Russelites claim Jesus returned spiritually in 1874 , later some Russelites became JWs.

[selah]

and later, the SDA people said Jesus did "come," but it was in a spiritual sense, that He came into the temple in heaven to judge humanity... (Do I have all of this history and theology correct? Not to mean that I believe the theology, but I mean, have I restated their history and beliefs accurately?)








I may be wrong but i think it was the Millerites who predicted this date & afterwards some became 7 th day Adventists & some became Russelites and the Russelites claim Jesus returned spiritually in 1874 , later some Russelites became JWs.

I had not heard of the Russelites, but I too heard that the Millerites predicted this date and as you said, some became SDA and some JW.

["And it is very sad for all those people who believe Jesus' coming was to occur any time after 70AD."

Mellontones, do you not believe in a literal second coming? What scriptural reference would support such a belief?

I admit that my view of eschatology is skewed by my upbringing in the SDA church. I take a neutral perspective while listening to the many POVs out there. Someday I would like to tackle the subject and understand it, i.e. develop a positional belief, but for now, I am still seeking to absorb the four gospels and epistles. Because there is so much talk (and disagreement) among Christians and non-Christians alike about the coming "financial armagedon," "deluge," "crisis," "end of the world," etc. I do however, get interested in this subject---it is like trying to figure out the signs of the times.

I want a revival though...rather the world is coming to an end or not.

Does anyone believe that a revival can happen to just one person? or to a small group of people, or does the meaning of the word have to encompass multitudes?