Mat 24

[psychohmike]

Why weren’t they convinced the King had been enthroned and what sign would have convinced them, He was enthroned and had been given dominion?

Conquest

Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Paul said it...I believe it...that settles it.

Maybe it was said blindness that kept them from getting it.

[Conquest]

Why weren’t they convinced the King had been enthroned and what sign would have convinced them, He was enthroned and had been given dominion?

Conquest

Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Paul said it...I believe it...that settles it.

Maybe it was said blindness that kept them from getting it.

Great point, God "blinded" them, but what "sign" would have casued even blind men to have understood the Messiah was ruling? What sign may have been viewed as a divine act that God was ruling?

Conquest

[mikew]

Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Paul said it...I believe it...that settles it.

Maybe it was said blindness that kept them from getting it.

Great point, God "blinded" them, but what "sign" would have casued even blind men to have understood the Messiah was ruling? What sign may have been viewed as a divine act that God was ruling?

Conquest

Nothing says that those in Jerusalem would understand that the Messiah was ruling, just that they would see the sign. The passage was about their judgment. The judgment was part of these events. Though I think there were observations in the sky as well.
As an aside I point out how the sign was given to non-believers. The believers naturally understood what was happening and therefore didn't need a sign.

[psychohmike]

Great point, God "blinded" them, but what "sign" would have casued even blind men to have understood the Messiah was ruling? What sign may have been viewed as a divine act that God was ruling?

Conquest

Well...Even people today don't believe in Jesus...who He is...what he did...or acknowledge that He is, "King of Kings and Lord of Lords." Yet that doesn't impugn His rule in any way. However, I believe that when one sees the proverbial light, Christ is quite literally seated on the throne(of that individuals heart).

Creator of the universe and sovereign ruler of His Kingdom. However until you are within it's borders and bow down...

Luke 13:34-35 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’”

Those that accepted Jesus and welcomed Him riding in on the donkey sung, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD"

Maybe...Juuuuust maybe, seeing Jesus again was predicated on accepting Him as ruler and sovereign in your life.

[Douglas]

Maybe...Juuuuust maybe, seeing Jesus again was predicated on accepting Him as ruler and sovereign in your life.

Interesting...

[Bubba]

Well...Even people today don't believe in Jesus...who He is...what he did...or acknowledge that He is, "King of Kings and Lord of Lords." Yet that doesn't impugn His rule in any way. However, I believe that when one sees the proverbial light, Christ is quite literally seated on the throne(of that individuals heart).

Creator of the universe and sovereign ruler of His Kingdom. However until you are within it's borders and bow down...

Luke 13:34-35 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’”

Those that accepted Jesus and welcomed Him riding in on the donkey sung, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD"

Maybe...Juuuuust maybe, seeing Jesus again was predicated on accepting Him as ruler and sovereign in your life[

Psyschohmike,
I have never reason this passage as you have, but it does make sense. Being a Calvinist (soveriegnty of God),UR and Partial Preterist (nice handle right?) I am aware that one does not say yes to Jesus or give praise except by the efficacious work of the Spirit.
Grace alone, Bubba

[psychohmike]

Psyschohmike,
I have never reason this passage as you have, but it does make sense. Being a Calvinist (soveriegnty of God),UR and Partial Preterist (nice handle right?) I am aware that one does not say yes to Jesus or give praise except by the efficacious work of the Spirit.
Grace alone, Bubba

Thanks Bubba,

However until someone can convince me otherwise I lean alot more towards the fuller end of preterism. I honestly wish I could embrace the Partial Preterist paradigm, from scripture alone...But I cannot.

But maybe you are the one that will be able to help me see otherwise. 8)

Pmike

[Bubba]

Pmike,
I probably fit into an Amillennial/partial Preterist model, but the reason I can not adhere to the Full Preterist, is over the general resurrection of believers. Though I have read arguments over Paul's passage of 1 Corinthians 15:44, " It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body" by Full Preterist, I still find it hard to dismiss a bodily 2nd Coming of Jesus and believers as a whole, and totally spiritualize both in 70 A.D.. Acts 1:11, ""Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." 1 Cor 15:49 says "so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven". So, what kind of resurrection body did Jesus have?We find it described:(Luke 24:37-43 NIV) They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. {38} He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? {39} Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." {40} When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. {41} And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" {42} They gave him a piece of broiled fish, {43} and he took it and ate it in their presence." It seems to me Jesus had a physical body and our resurrection bodies will be like His body (see also Phil.3:21). Yet, with what I have written, I know that the Full Preterist make a very good argument for their case, it is just that I am not convinced.
Grace, Bubba

[psychohmike]

Hey Bubba...I hear ya! I don't give you inconsistent...8)...I mean partial preterist too hard of a time. I think most preterists started out as partial preterists.

However I just have a hard time with the time statements referring to the resurrection, coming and judgment as being soon near and at hand in the first century as being something still yet future to us. I mean...If God wanted to communicate to man that these things were a long way off, He could have said that. Yet He didn't.

That is my hurdle.

[Conquest]

Great point, God "blinded" them, but what "sign" would have casued even blind men to have understood the Messiah was ruling? What sign may have been viewed as a divine act that God was ruling?

Conquest

Well...Even people today don't believe in Jesus...who He is...what he did...or acknowledge that He is, "King of Kings and Lord of Lords." Yet that doesn't impugn His rule in any way. However, I believe that when one sees the proverbial light, Christ is quite literally seated on the throne(of that individuals heart).

Creator of the universe and sovereign ruler of His Kingdom. However until you are within it's borders and bow down...

Luke 13:34-35 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’”

Those that accepted Jesus and welcomed Him riding in on the donkey sung, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD"

Maybe...Juuuuust maybe, seeing Jesus again was predicated on accepting Him as ruler and sovereign in your life.

Granted, even today people deny the Messiah, but the context of this discussion revolves around the 1st Century and specifically the land of Palestine. From what I understand the vast majority of Jews denied the Messiah. What I’m asking is what would have been a ”sign” to them that God had judged them?

Conquest.