what dispensationalism has wrought

Post by **_Derek** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:34 pm

Hi Jesus Follower,

It seems that everything you write is simply copy and pasted from the website that you link to in each of your posts. Maybe I am off base, so I apologize in advance if I am wrong to point it out, but it seems that forums are for the exchange of our ideas and the biblical reasons for them. It really isn't much of a dialogue if everyone just copied and pasted from articles on the Internet for their whole side of the discussion. Again, I mean no offense and someone please correct me if I am wrong. I realize that I havn't even participated in the discussion thus far, so maybe I am out of line for even commenting.

God bless,
Derek

Post by **_Jesusfollower** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:12 pm

It is real obvious Sean that you did not read to thoroughly the articles, you see salvation has always been available to all administrations but it is not the same as the Church age, the administration of grace, also called the Sacred Secret. Do you have a problem reading well put together commentaries? The position in well laid out in many of them from many differing angles, It is pretty clear to me that your mind is made up, and is on the side of Orthodoxy. You are much to set in your positions to really understand I am afraid. And why would I take the time to type the things that I believe when you are an obvious skim reader.
There are mortals who survive the tribulation, else at the end of the millennium when Satan is loosed, who are deceived? The church when we are told we with ever be with the Lord.
We are also told we, the Church are sealed with the holy spirit as a guarantee, I think you rely to heavily an the interpretations of the Orthodox leaders and what you have been taught.
There is nothing I see in Thessalonians that says different, The judgment does not come until the end of the millennium.
The rapture in 2 thess 4 says the Church meets him in the air and he never touches down then, it is at his second coming to the earth (Rev. 19:11FF) The church is with him it says he is followed by thousands of his saints(not the catholic kind).
Any way I am not a Collage boy, or a great typist, But rather an "ignorant and unlearned man", So I know what has been revealed to me through the great works of many great men of God throughout history and my own reading of the scripture. So if you wish to belittle me in such a Christian manner, then be my guest.
You may be right in all of your assumptions about these matters, but I don't think so. I have given you links to information what you do with that is up to you, and how you receive it. If you want to duologue with someone of your self considered scholarship call John the 800 # is on the web sites, or maybe it is at Spirit and Truth Fellowship International. But you probably should read the information thoroughly first.
Thank you for your suggestions.

Post by **_Jesusfollower** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:40 pm

Thank you Derek for your kind words also, the web sites sited use and reference Scripture 100% and are basically where all the info is gathered together in one place.

Post by **_Jesusfollower** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:54 pm

By the way back to when the Church was formed.
Virtually all Bible commentators agree with the above definitions, but not all agree upon when the Church began, that is, when the first people became “Christians.” OK, then we’d best look at what it takes to become a Christian, and Romans 10:9 is perhaps the key verse in that regard: “That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

That verse makes it clear that no one was “saved” by being “born again of incorruptible seed” (1 Pet. 1:23), that is, becoming a “Christian,” prior to the resurrection and subsequent ascension of Jesus Christ. Salvation has always been available ever since Adam’s sin necessitated it, but never until after Christ’s life, death, resurrection, and exaltation as “Lord” (Acts 2:37) did salvation consist of being “born again” of God’s spirit, receiving His “divine nature” (2 Pet. 1:4) and being “sealed with that holy spirit of promise” (Eph. 1:13). TAPE: Purpose of the Ages

The Four Gospels basically end with Jesus’ ascension (Luke 24:51-53). If we then go to the Book of Acts, we join the timeline with that same event in Chapter 1, verse 9, after which his disciples chose a replacement for Judas, who had committed suicide. And then comes Chapter 2, which begins as follows:

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules ... le&sid=590

Post by **_Jesusfollower** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:24 pm

Paridon, you may find this of interest.
Well, take a look around at the world. The place is a zoo, and that is unbearably euphemistic. More literally, people are suffering on a scale no human mind can begin to grasp. Paradise is so lost. Then compare the world today with what the Word of God says about the time when Jesus rules the earth, and see if the two line up.

Are we living in the Kingdom now?

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules ... cle&sid=19

I think This position is very valid.
And as I understand Dispensationalism it is how God dealt with all people at different times, Altough it seems God classifies all people as Jew, Gentile, or Church of God
1 Corinthians 10:32 (New American Standard Bible)

32(A)Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to (B)the church of God;

Post by **_Paidion** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:02 am

Paridon, you may find this of interest.
Well, take a look around at the world. The place is a zoo, and that is unbearably euphemistic. More literally, people are suffering on a scale no human mind can begin to grasp. Paradise is so lost. Then compare the world today with what the Word of God says about the time when Jesus rules the earth, and see if the two line up.

Are we living in the Kingdom now?

If we are Jesus' disciples, then we, together with our King ARE the Kingdom. The Kingdom is not a place, it consists of people --- the King and His subjects.

And this is the way it was many years ago, as Jesus explained to the Pharisees:

Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst." Luke 17:20,21

Right while He was speaking, the Kingdom of God was in the midst of the Pharisees. Who were members of that Kingdom? King Jesus and His disciples.

If Jesus said the Kingdom was present in His day, who are we to gainsay Him by insisting that it be post-poned to a future age?

Jesus also said:

Matthew 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness... NASB

In order for the angels to gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those wo commit lawlessness, it is necessary that His kingdom already be there!

A careful reading of Jesus' parables of the Kingdom, will reveal Kingdom growth. The fact that the Kingdom now exists within a "zoo" in no way proves that it does not exist. But after the stumbling blocks and sinners are removed, and the Kingdoms of this world permanently become the Kingdom of our Lord and His Christ, then the Kingdom will have reached maturity, and "the whole lump" will have been "leavened".