When is a view fully preteristic?

[mikew]

I think I have heard different views of when a view is full preterism.
Jesus said "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place."(Luke 21:32 ) And some will take this to mean that any prophecy in the Bible was fulfilled. Yet Jesus could have been talking about just the events of Luke 21

So the possibilities seem to be that full preterism only requires fulfillment of one of the following:
1. prophecies of Luke 21
2. prophecies of the Messiah and judgment in OT
3. prophecies of the Messiah and judgment in OT and those of Jesus in NT
4. prophecies of the Messiah and judgment in OT, those of Jesus and all writings in NT
5. prophecies of end-times but not of events thereafter
6. fulfillment of prophecies and promises to Israel (probably along with one of the options 1 to 5)

Now another aspect of this is whether there is a fulfillment of all aspects of resurrection. So maybe Jesus described our born again experience as being a resurrection --which may not be fulfillment of any specific prophecy. And the resurrection of the Last Day may not be of specific prophecy.

The idea here is that if resurrection of the Last Day is not a matter of prophecy and the end of the millennium isn't part of O/T prophecy, then there are specific events and prophecies that don't have to be seen as fulfilled yet a viewpoint still could be classified as being full preterism.

So I personally see the resurrection of the Last Day as being future and I see the encircling of the camp of the saints as a future event. Plus, the kingdom of God is still expanding and bringing things under subjection to Christ.

[Allyn]

Hi Mike,

You might find this interesting

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/resurrection.html

[mikew]

Hi Mike,

You might find this interesting

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/resurrection.html

Does anything in particular stand out in your mind with respect to the original post?

[Allyn]

Hi Mike,

You might find this interesting

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/resurrection.html

Does anything in particular stand out in your mind with respect to the original post?

Yes, and this is why I provided the link if you are so inclinded to read it.

[mikew]

Hi Mike,

You might find this interesting

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/resurrection.html

Does anything in particular stand out in your mind with respect to the original post?

Yes, and this is why I provided the link if you are so inclinded to read it.

Jesus and Daniel talked about some resurrections such as that found in the born again experience and that found in judgment and then that found apart from judgment. Maybe that article just wasn't a good place to start a discussion on resurrection.

[mikew]

Ok. I've been dying to share my article on resurrection. The link is at: http://www.biblereexamined.com/Resurrections.htm

This article was just a flow of ideas that came together as I thought about the topic. And I really haven't had any comments back. But this is the sort of framework that needs to be developed to study resurrection.

My article could be just one big mess, but even if so, there still is the need to take an overall approach, not the typical piecemeal approach, to study resurrection.

[mattrose]

When I think of 'full preterism' I think of the idea that the resurrection has occurred spiritually, that Jesus isn't coming back bodily, that there will not be an ultimate and general Day of Judgment, and that there will not be a new heavens and a new earth. I consider this view to be, at best, on the very edge of acceptability in regards to the pale of orthodoxy. Resurrection is, by definition, physical. If a full-preterist denies the physicality of Jesus' resurrection, I have reason, in my opinion, to doubt how rightly they can be called 'Christian.' Less importantly, I think this view misses the mark of how fully God is able and willing to restore His original creation.

[mtymousie]

As a true full preterist, I firmly believe that "all things written" were fufilled within the lifetime of the witnesses who heard Jesus speak His prophecy. Indeed, as per the pattern of Lev.16, I believe that if the High Priest did not appear alive the second time out of the true Holy of Holies without sin unto salvation (Heb.9:24-28), then those witnesses waited in vain. Fortunately for them and for us, Christ returned just as He said and so we all have hope of salvation. His incorruptible word is forever capable of producing born again citizens for His kingdom (1 Peter 1:23). And the "gates" to His kingdom will never be shut (Rev.21:25) so that all those who keep His commandments will forever be able to enter into those gates (Rev.22:14). Praise God for His everlasting kingdom which will never be destroyed (Dan.2:44).

In Christ,
Dale
aka
preteristmouse

[MoGrace2u]

When I think of 'full preterism' I think of the idea that the resurrection has occurred spiritually, that Jesus isn't coming back bodily, that there will not be an ultimate and general Day of Judgment, and that there will not be a new heavens and a new earth. I consider this view to be, at best, on the very edge of acceptability in regards to the pale of orthodoxy. Resurrection is, by definition, physical. If a full-preterist denies the physicality of Jesus' resurrection, I have reason, in my opinion, to doubt how rightly they can be called 'Christian.' Less importantly, I think this view misses the mark of how fully God is able and willing to restore His original creation.

Jesus has already manifested Himself in the earth twice in bodily form - by the water and by the blood - His incarnation and resurrection were both bodily. But upon His ascension His bodily form took on the glory of heaven that He had before the world began. This is the glorious form that John sees in Rev. Somehow I doubt that Jesus is going to give up that glory to return to earth and go back in the form He had when He walked the earth physically.

Also the idea that the resurrection was to be to a physical form does not have to assume it means that those in the earth would witness it. Since Jesus is in heaven, those He resurrects are there too. It is only the dead saints that were given a hope of resurrection - much like the body that Jesus was raised up in before He ascended to glory. And the judgment they were to face was to determine who entered into glory and who did not. That takes care of the dead.

(1 John 3:2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

(1 John 3:14) We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

(John 5:24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

So we see that the living who are in Christ have a different expectation than the dead in Christ had prior to the cross. Paul seems clear that those who have part in the 1st resurrection receive spiritual bodies immediately upon arrival. That they may have waited until the judgment brought the end to the old covenant for this resurrection; does not mean that we who follow them will - we still have a part in it. The rest of the dead however do not, the unjustified dead will not rise until we are all safely in heaven - at the end of this 1,000's of years.

Which is where I think full preterism misses the boat. Satan's little season is what marks the end of this age to usher in the eternal. The things in the earth have their end, but those who abide in Christ do not. That is the difference between the old covenant age and the new covenant age. Israel needed to be raised up from the dead, but not until Christ was manifested in the earth. He did that and showed He had the power to raise the dead even before the cross. Why would we think these things have not come to pass just as He said they would - which timing was to be the destruction of Jerusalem?

That gives us a type for what remains to come in this spiritual kingdom in which we dwell. If Satanic deception has not been the bane upon the churches in these days - where hardly anyone even agrees on the gospel anymore; let alone knows the things Christ has done for us... Full preterism seems overly optomistic to me that Christianity will fill this earth with truth. Rather it seems to me we need to be rescued before true faith disappears altogether!

[Mellontes]

Full preterism seems overly optomistic to me that Christianity will fill this earth with truth

It could be just me, but I have never heard of that view in full-preterism before. This seems to be more of a postmillennial view... Doesn't that contradict the Scripture talking about the narrow and broad roads?

And to address Matt Rose's "Resurrection is, by definition, physical," I think he has limited his denotation to what he believes. Resurrection is simply the raising of the dead to life. Physically, it happened to Lazarus. Spritually it happens to all those who experience the new birth in Christ. Was Christ the first fruits of a physical resurrection? Is redemption being brought back into the presence of God or getting a brand new body?

John 11:25-26 - Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Blessings