Who was Jesus speaking to?

Post by **_psychohmike** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:26 pm

Subject: Olivet Discourse.

Mark 13:3-4 Now as He(Jesus) sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?”

So does this mean that the olivet discourse was a private Bible study between Jesus and Peter, James, John and Andrew? Or is there some other passage that would lead us to beleive that there was more than these four?

Any thoughts would be great!

Mike

Post by **_Paidion** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:31 pm

And as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, "Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign when these things are all to be accomplished?" Mark 13:3,4

As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?" Matthew 24:3

Matthew's statement that "the disciples" came to him privately, seems to suggest all of the disciples. It does not say "some of his disciples". These events were recorded many years after the occured and it seems that they were remembered somewhat differently. Who can say which record is more precise?

Post by **_Derek** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:18 am

I would say that "the disciples" are "the disciples Peter and James and John and Andrew".

I suppose though, that it could go the other way, in that all of the disciples were there, and Mark just chose to mention those four.

Post by **_psychohmike** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:24 am

Well...If my understanding is correct, the book of Mark was the first one to have been written. To suggest that the term, "the disciples," in Matthew somehow suggests "ALL" when the book of Mark puts a limit on who came to Him seems to be forced.

Does it change anything if it were 4 rather than 12? Probably not.

ANOTHER QUESTION...

Was the discourse limited to the disciples? Or were there others around as well?

Post by **_psychohmike** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:52 am

Matthew's statement that "the disciples" came to him privately, seems to suggest all of the disciples. It does not say "some of his disciples". These events were recorded many years after the occured and it seems that they were remembered somewhat differently. Who can say which record is more precise?

Could "the disciples came to Him privately" mean all of the disciples...YES

Could "the disciples came to Him privately" mean more than one but less then twelve disciples...YES

Could "Peter, James, John and Andrew came to Him privately" mean ALL of the disciples...NO.

All things being equal...The synoptic gospels. The simplest answer is the correct one.

To suggest that 4 disciples having come to Jesus privately somehow equates to all 12 of them coming to Him would suggest that we can twist scripture to mean anything we want it to.

You need to do better than that Pai.

Post by **_Rick_C** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:00 am

Four disciples come up with some questions. These four ask Jesus "privately" -- meaning -- they (Jesus and the twelve) weren't "out in the open" or in the general public: The Olivet Discourse wasn't held in a public forum but was a private discussion.

Have you ever gone to your boss and asked a question, maybe with another co-worker? Then your boss realizes the others need to hear the answers? and/or just know "What's going on?" So he just says it to everyone in your department.

The eight disciples who didn't ask Jesus may or may not have heard the questions. But what Jesus said in answering was heard by all twelve..."What's going on?"....

Mike wrote:Could "Peter, James, John and Andrew came to Him privately" mean ALL of the disciples...NO.

Let's say I have six kids in the house. Two of them come and ask if they all can go out and play. I announce to all six, "No going outside till you do your homework"....

All twelve disciples were probably "right there" (like all six kids in my house, someplace nearby where they all can hear my voice).

Interesting question...did y'all hear me? lol

Thanks,
Rick

Post by **_psychohmike** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:35 am

That might very well be the case. But there isn't anything in the text that would indicate that Jesus "then turned" and addressed all of the disciples.

Is there any reason in particular that it needs to be all the disciples that Jesus was addressing?

Thanks, Mike

Rick_C wrote:Four disciples come up with some questions. These four ask Jesus "privately" -- meaning -- they (Jesus and the twelve) weren't "out in the open" or in the general public: The Olivet Discourse wasn't held in a public forum but was a private discussion.

Have you ever gone to your boss and asked a question, maybe with another co-worker? Then your boss realizes the others need to hear the answers? and/or just know "What's going on?" So he just says it to everyone in your department.

The eight disciples who didn't ask Jesus may or may not have heard the questions. But what Jesus said in answering was heard by all twelve..."What's going on?"....

Mike wrote:Could "Peter, James, John and Andrew came to Him privately" mean ALL of the disciples...NO.
Let's say I have six kids in the house. Two of them come and ask if they all can go out and play. I announce to all six, "No going outside till you do your homework"....

All twelve disciples were probably "right there" (like all six kids in my house, someplace nearby where they all can hear my voice).

Interesting question...did y'all hear me? lol

Thanks,
Rick