Question about the 2nd Coming as described in Rev 20

Post by **_Blev** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:31 pm

Rev 20 says the second coming of Christ is when Satan and his army are about to attack and after Satan has been released for a short while.

2nd Peter 10 says that the day of the Lord will come like a thief.

I think I've read other versus that make the 2nd Coming sound like it will happen when it is not expected not expected.

To me these conflict. I know we should always be prepared for the 2nd Coming, but the way in which it happen is confusing. The Rev 20 2nd Coming seems like there are obvious things going on to expect a 2nd Coming at anytime. Where as other versus make it sound like it will be at an unexpected time. Thanks

Post by **_Paidion** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:53 pm

Blev wrote:Rev 20 says the second coming of Christ is when Satan and his army are about to attack and after Satan has been released for a short while.

I have just read and reread Rev 20, and could not find any statement that the second coming occurs at the time you stated. Please quote the words from Rev 20 which tell you this.

Post by **_Blev** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:59 pm

Rev 20- 7And after the thousand years, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and he will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war; the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up over the breadth of the earth, and surrounded the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. Fire came down out of heaven from God, and devoured them. 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Post by **_Paidion** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:19 pm

In what part of that quote is the second coming of Christ stated or implied?

Post by **_Blev** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:47 pm

Well if it's not this verse than it's one of the ones that follows shortly in this short chapter. I am assuming that Rev chapt 20 is explaining the end the Earth and Satan and a 2nd Coming of Jesus.

My question is with all this going on, how can it be that it would be like a thief (theifs= stealth and suprise). I think some of the other passeges I read about people living life and doing as it was in the time of Noha maybe and not expecting the end, is probably ref to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad, but some of the other passages about the 2nd coming, still have me confused, about the 2nd coming being a an unexpected event.

Reading Rev. 20, I don't see how it could be a suprise at all, with all that would be going on, from reading Satan being losed and the armies gathered to do battle.

Post by **_Sean** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:37 pm

Paidion wrote:In what part of that quote is the second coming of Christ stated or implied?

Rev 20:9 They went up over the breadth of the earth, and surrounded the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. Fire came down out of heaven from God, and devoured them.
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.

I would cross reference it to these passages:

2 Thes 1:7 when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
2Th 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
2Th 1:10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.

and

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a rushing noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat. And the earth and the works in it will be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Then, all these things being about to be dissolved, what sort ought you to be in holy behavior and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 looking for and rushing the coming of the Day of God, on account of which the heavens, being on fire, will melt away, and the elements will melt, burning with heat?

and

2Th 2:6 And now you know what holds back, for him to be revealed in his own time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already working, only he is now holding back until it comes out of the midst.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the breath of His mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming,
2Th 2:9 whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

The man of sin comes on to the scene, His coming is in accord with the working of Satan, who is presently being "held back" (i.e. bound for a "thousand" years) until he is revealed to deceive many people and then is destroyed by the second coming of Christ, in flaming fire.

That's my take on it.

Post by **_Blev** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:31 am

I'll try to make my original question more plain. Will the 2nd coming be at the brink of a major war, or will it be unexpected, as a thief in the night?

Post by **_Sean** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:37 am

Blev wrote:I'll try to make my original question more plain. Will the 2nd coming be at the brink of a major war, or will it be unexpected, as a thief in the night?

Could the answer "both" be incorrect? We've been on the brink of world war several times in the last 100 years, yet Jesus hasn't returned. So I believe it will be a time of greater turmoil against Christians but I don't know how obvious it will be to anyone that the return may be "real soon" based on an obvious world event. It seems that His coming will be unexpected, even to the disciples (Luke 12:46).

Post by **_Paidion** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:36 pm

Sean has quoted verses from Revelation which indicate a great judgment known as "The Great White Throne Judgment". Not one word in Rev 20 speaks explicitly of the second coming of Christ. It is supposed by post-millenialists and a-millenialists that this is the judgment which will take place at the coming of Christ. Pre-millenialists believe Christ will come at the beginning of the millenium, and that the "punishment of 'eternal' destruction" (quoted by Sean from 2 Thess 1) is rendered to Christ's enemies who are alive at the time of His coming.

At The Great White Throne Judgment, all persons who have ever lived, will be judged.

From this perspective, your original question, Blev, is answered. Jesus' coming is sudden, unexpected, and one person is taken away (in judgment) and another is left (after becoming instantly immortal and caught up to meet Christ in the air and returning to earth to reign with Him a thousand years). The events of Rev 20 occur at the end of the thousand years.

Post by **_psychohmike** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:52 pm

What about this passage.

Matthew 16:27-28 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.(NKJV)

This passage could lead one to believe that His coming is directly connected with the great white throne judgment.

Heck...Couple that verse with the following one and you might just be a preterist.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-8 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those(THE JEWS) who trouble you(CHRISTIANS), and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.(NKJV)

What kind of rest from the tribulation that these first century believers were under, would a promise of a coming some 2000+ years later be? Did it make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that Jesus would come sometime off in the future...or was it THAT generation that actually did see these things?

Matthew 16:27-28 & 2 Thess 1:6-9 are speaking of the same event.

If you disagree...please let me know why?