Can we do nothing more than speculate at this time?

[RV]

Every time I ask the question it is ignored. So I figure I'd post a separate thread dealing with my question... hopefully.

Is this subject/topic (Eschatology) nothing more than speculation at this present time?

Can we do nothing more than speculate when it comes to this topic?

If this question/topic isn't valid, then tell me and show me why?

[Jill]

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[mikew]

I think God has a path for the Church on the issue of Eschatology.
Right now much has depended on speculation. But I think even this Dispensationalism Pre-mil stuff increased interest in End Time study which has led people in to deeper discussion on End Times.

Scripture offers good solid material on Eschatological concepts. There just needs to be some overwhelming arguments about certain key points. I think the Church is getting closer to knowing these. The popular discussion of preterist ideas represents a strong part of this move from speculation into understanding.

I expect that a big aspect of change and clarity will be in the Church coming to understand what the definition and implications of the kingdom of God. Of course there always will be differences of opinion, but the general level of understanding of such topics, and more accurately, will likely happen over time.

[RV]

I think God has a path for the Church on the issue of Eschatology.

Really? What leads you to believe that?

But I think even this Dispensationalism Pre-mil stuff increased interest in End Time study which has led people in to deeper discussion on End Times.

Probably, but that hasn't changed this:

"Right now much has depended on speculation."

Scripture offers good solid material on Eschatological concepts. There just needs to be some overwhelming arguments about certain key points. I think the Church is getting closer to knowing these. The popular discussion of preterist ideas represents a strong part of this move from speculation into understanding.

That can be said about most anything and is said about most everything. More specifically while we're on the subject: Dispensationalism. "In the last days knowledge will increase."

I expect that a big aspect of change and clarity will be in the Church coming to understand what the definition and implications of the kingdom of God. Of course there always will be differences of opinion, but the general level of understanding of such topics, and more accurately, will likely happen over time.

What??

[RND]

Is this subject/topic (Eschatology) nothing more than speculation at this present time?

Personally, I don't think so. I think that God would have us to have some general understanding of the worldly events that would point us to recognizing the times and the sign of His second coming. We are encouraged by Christ that even though we know not the day or hour of His second coming we are still told to be ready and watch.

Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Can we do nothing more than speculate when it comes to this topic?

I believe that we don't have to speculate when we prayerfully consider the word of God.

If this question/topic isn't valid, then tell me and show me why?

RV, I think your questions are quite valid. I am certainly not one who is of a mind that things haven't yet been revealed in the word. Just the other day I was speaking with someone who had heard a teaching where the "many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased" in Daniel 12:4 might actually be related to our increasing knowledge regarding the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation. Now, I have no idea how true that connection might be, but it seems reasonable that this verse could have more than one meaning....oopps, maybe that means I'm speculating!

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

[Suzana]

Is this subject/topic (Eschatology) nothing more than speculation at this present time?

Can we do nothing more than speculate when it comes to this topic?

I think that if there are any scriptures, or even possible references regarding end-time events, then it is rather a matter of interpretation of these (also bearing in mind any other historical documentation). It is not the only doctrinal topic with various differing opinions as to the correct meaning or application.

A charge of mere speculation I would reserve to matters that aren’t seemingly addressed at all, for example ‘did God create life on other planets?’; ‘how old will we look in the new earth/heaven?’; can Satan read my thoughts?, etc.

[mtymousie]

Is this subject/topic (Eschatology) nothing more than speculation at this present time?

Can we do nothing more than speculate when it comes to this topic?

I think that if there are any scriptures, or even possible references regarding end-time events, then it is rather a matter of interpretation of these (also bearing in mind any other historical documentation). It is not the only doctrinal topic with various differing opinions as to the correct meaning or application.

A charge of mere speculation I would reserve to matters that aren’t seemingly addressed at all, for example ‘did God create life on other planets?’; ‘how old will we look in the new earth/heaven?’; can Satan read my thoughts?, etc.

That is a fair answer to a question I certainly did not know how to address because of the word "speculate". I do, however, believe that there is ample scriptural and historical evidence that the prophecy was indeed fulfilled as Jesus said.

IMO, futurists take this verse, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matt.24:36), and try to make it say something that it does NOT say at all. Jesus had just spent quite a bit of time telling His disciples that they would indeed SEE all those things happen. He said that only the Father knew the exact day and hour He would be returning, but He clearly proved that He indeed KNEW His return would be before that generation standing there listening to Him passed away.

Since Jesus gave the time frame for His prophecy, it is incumbent upon us to look for its fulfillment within that time frame. I, for one, do not believe that it is mere coincidence that EYEWITNESS accounts have been preserved that prove that Jesus spoke the truth.

JMO,
Dale
aka
preteristmouse

[Jill]

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[Mellontes]

Is this subject/topic (Eschatology) nothing more than speculation at this present time?

Can we do nothing more than speculate when it comes to this topic?

I think that if there are any scriptures, or even possible references regarding end-time events, then it is rather a matter of interpretation of these (also bearing in mind any other historical documentation). It is not the only doctrinal topic with various differing opinions as to the correct meaning or application.

A charge of mere speculation I would reserve to matters that aren’t seemingly addressed at all, for example ‘did God create life on other planets?’; ‘how old will we look in the new earth/heaven?’; can Satan read my thoughts?, etc.

Hi Suzana "End Times" in my own "church world" has all but crippled my own sense of pacing out a reasonable life time. 0-100yrs. Those that enjoy being driven by "End Times" news channel and rumored hysteria, and are driven by it can just go to hell. These snowbird vacationers preaching an armagedon rapture, while the young do not even know if they'll live through the fall, makes me sick.

I'm not so sure I would agree with you on them going to hell, but I would maybe suggest some self-supporting island where those views would be out of reach...

I find it amazing that we are willing to consider things from our own "church world" and not consider the Jews "world" of the temple and ceremonies. From the disciples' question of "When shall the end of the age (world) be?" has developed planetary destruction. This is error. The theme of the "end of the age" in regards to the Lord's parousia, second appearing does not change contexts. I am also amazed at the many partial-preterists lack of ability to come to one conclusion as to which texts apply to the temple destruction and which apply to the final second appearing (Sorry Steve). They over lap. And if one does a lot of work comparing these texts all can be made to apply to the temple destruction. I have asked and asked for the list of Scriptures that apply the end of the age to the end of the planet. I have also asked when and where the Apostles explain this change of context. Strange also that the parousia, in its purest form, is not even mentioned in Revelation. Just a note, not a critique. Just as repentance is not mentioned in the Gospel of John, even though that book specifically states in John 20:31 that "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."

And further to the doom and gloom of the dispensational futurism, they are many documented reports of how many have quit their jobs in anticipation of one of every failed prediction of the rapture. Serious consequences indeed, especially when children are the unsuspecting victims of such a theology...

[Jill]

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