Our Rule and Reign

[Othniel]

As I discuss the position of Amillennialism with people, comments always arise regarding my view of the Christians reigning.

I have heard from Steve that the Rev 20 reign refers to our reign in heaven with Christ during the present church age.

Here is my question: What does this reign entail? In what way are we to reign with Christ in heaven? Are there other verses that support a heavenly reign?

I am unsure what we are reigning over since (1) we are in heaven, (2) we are not in our resurrected state since that takes place at the end of days, and (3) the nations don't seem to be affected by the present reign of the saints in heaven (that I can overtly see).

Thoughts?

[jarrod]

We know that all authority in heaven and on earth have been given to Jesus (Cf. Matthew 28:18) so that would define His kingdom. If we are reigning with Him, then in whatever capacity, I would assume that would define our scope of "reign" as well?

[Paidion]

Those of us who are pre-millenialists have no difficulty in believing that the overcomers will reign with Christ right here on earth.

Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Rev. 20:6)

For we understand the first resurrection as occuring at the coming of Christ just prior to the Millenium. The overcomers will reign under the authority of Christ. For during the Millenium all others will become subject to Christ. Then, at the end of the millenium, all non-overcomers who have died will be raised to life in the second resurrection, and those whose names will not have been written in the Lamb's book of life will be cast into the Lake of fire until every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

What John saw in his vision corresponds the reconciliation of all sentient beings:

Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice: "Worthy is the lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom, and strength and honor and glory and blessing!" And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power be to him who sits on the throne, and to the lamb, forever and ever!" Then the four living creatures said, "Amen!" and the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped him who lives forever and ever. (Rev 5:11-14)

[Perry]

I am unsure what we are reigning over since (1) we are in heaven, (2) we are not in our resurrected state since that takes place at the end of days, and (3) the nations don't seem to be affected by the present reign of the saints in heaven (that I can overtly see).

Thoughts?

Couldn't points 1 and 3 be said of Christ as well. Certainly He is reigning. As for point 2, though no great details are given about the state they are in, they are depicted as with Christ.

Steve went over this in some detail during GCS when going through the book of Revelation. I'm not sure that I'm ready to advocate this view 100%, but, but I'll say that this understanding was part of a very consistent model.

My personal views on the intermediate state are somewhat in a state of chaos at the moment, and they may remain so for a while. It's not my main priority these days. In the past I've been an adherent to the idea of soul sleep, but I'm not so sure about that any more. I haven't totally chucked the idea yet, just not so sure of it as I used to be.

[jeremiah]

hello othniel,

Here is my question: What does this reign entail? In what way are we to reign with Christ in heaven? Are there other verses that support a heavenly reign?

i'm not sure we can get a concrete answer to how exactly those of us in Christ are reigning with him, or how this reign will look after the resurrection. if there is an answer, i disbelieve it can be found in the pages of the revelation, but rather in the rest of scripture that precedes it.

in his letter to the ephesians, paul doesn't explain exactly how, being in Christ, we are seated with him in heavenly places(reigning with him?). he just states that is so. i do believe it is extremely significant that he states this in the middle of probably one of the more comprehensive summaries to be found of what is entailed with being "in Christ." by this i think, realities such as being made alive in Christ, who were once dead in sins, and the hope of the resurrection (eph1:14,1:18), and us being God's workmanship are the mountains and whatever the current reign might be is kind of a silent mole hill.

As I discuss the position of Amillennialism with people, comments always arise regarding my view of the Christians reigning.

what kind of comments are they making? (i just had the thought that maybe i jumped the gun on the intent of your post, if i did, i'm sorry.

grace and peace

[steve7150]

I am unsure what we are reigning over since (1) we are in heaven, (2) we are not in our resurrected state since that takes place at the end of days, and (3) the nations don't seem to be affected by the present reign of the saints in heaven (that I can overtly see).











As a hopeful CU i think we may be helping Christ reign over the unbelievers in the lake of fire, dispensing justice as he sees fit and proclaiming the gospel "the books were opened" hopefully leading to repentance and ultimately every knee bowing and every tongue proclaiming Christ as Lord.

[KyleB]

I have wondered how much David being a type of Christ might shed light on this. We see that those who sided with him while he was in the wilderness received honored positions in his kingdom when he came to full power. But those weren't the only people in the kingdom. Aside from outright rebels against David, the rest of the nation (neutral parties?) entered into the kingdom as well, but were ruled over by his select men.

How does this apply to Christ's kingdom? Well, a CU would find it very easy. I am open to all the views but lean towards annihilation, so I don't really know how to fit it in. Maybe I'm taking the typology too far. Just something to think about I guess.

[Othniel]

hello othniel,

in his letter to the ephesians, paul doesn't explain exactly how, being in Christ, we are seated with him in heavenly places(reigning with him?). he just states that is so. i do believe it is extremely significant that he states this in the middle of probably one of the more comprehensive summaries to be found of what is entailed with being "in Christ."

This is a great answer! I forgot that Paul mentioned we are seated with Christ. As a scholar, It can be hard sometimes to stay silent on topics the Bible is silent on when we teach these things haha. I will have to explore the subject of being "in Christ" more thoroughly. It would seem that much of Steve's soteriological views stem from that phrase.

what kind of comments are they making? (i just had the thought that maybe i jumped the gun on the intent of your post, if i did, i'm sorry.

The questions I always get are: "do you think we are reigning right now? If so, how could that be? What are we reigning over?" Things like that.

[Paidion]

If Christians are reigning with Christ right now, they don't seem to be doing much to control the evil in this world. How would world conditions be different from what they are now if Christians were not reigning but simply living in this world proclaiming the gospel, loving their enemies, and ministering to widows, orphans, and the needy?

[Othniel]

If Christians are reigning with Christ right now, they don't seem to be doing much to control the evil in this world. How would world conditions be different from what they are now if Christians were not reigning but simply living in this world proclaiming the gospel, loving their enemies, and ministering to widows, orphans, and the needy?

Well Paidion, let me ask you this question: Who is reigning for sure? The answer is God. You may believe that Satan is the prince of this world, but Jesus is the God of Satan, and the Devil is just another tool in the hand of God. Is Jesus not "sitting at the right hand of God"? Has Jesus lost control of His creation? By no means!

If you have a problem with the way this world is being managed, talk to God. Christians are doing there jobs by proclaiming the gospel, loving their enemies, and ministering to widows, orphans, and the needy. Meanwhile, God is the one in charge of the state of things.

So before condemning the Amillennial view based on the state of the world, consider what your question is implying about it's Lord.