Paidion wrote:Secondly, you would be sorely mistaken if you think that there is "no evidence of His existence outside of the gospel narratives." I could provide you with direct quotes from ancient secular authorities such as Cornelius Tacitus (A.D.55-120), Lucian of Samosata, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger (A.D. 112), Thallus (A.D. 52), and Mara Bar-Serapion (around A.D. 70), which all wrote manuscripts that in some way or another verify the actual existence of Jesus the Christ.
I would be grateful to you if you should provide these quotes. Yes, that would be "good enough" indeed.
Fair enough Paidion, I will provide you the information you desire. In these quotes you will find that Jesus is referenced many times in ways that in no way allude to a symbolic figure, but rather imply an actual, physical, person. These references were all found in Josh McDowell's book "New Evidence That Demands A Verdict."
Cornelius Tacitus - Roman historian
"But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished with the most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities.
Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also." (Annals XV, 44)
Lucian of Samosata - Greek satirist
"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and
worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property" (Lucian,
The Death of Peregrine, 11-13)
Suetonius - Roman historian
"As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the
instigation of Chrestus [another spelling of Christus], he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome" (Suetonius,
Life of Claudius, 25.4)
Luke refers to this event in Acts 18:2. Suetonius later writes about the Christians suffering and dying at the hands of Nero (A.D. 64) for their conviction that Jesus Christ had really lived, died, and rose from the dead.
Pliny the Younger - Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor
In writing to the emperor Trajan, he writes that he "made [Christians] curse Christ, which a genuine Christian cannot be induced to do." In the same letter he says of the people being tried: "They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guild, or their error, was, that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verse a hymn to
Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to do any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up." (Epistles X, 96).
Thallus - One of the first secular writers who mentioned Christ who was quoted by writers such as Julius Africanus.
"thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun -- unreasonably, as it seems to me (unreasonably, of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon,
and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died)." (Julius Africanus,
Chronography, 18.1).
Mara Bar-Serapion - Syrian philosopher
"What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand.
What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera.
Nor did the wise King die for god; He lived on in the teaching which He had given." (Bruce, NTDATR, 114).
Babylonian Talmud - Ancient Jewish law book
"It has been taught:
On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out in front of him, for forty days (saying): 'He is going to be stoned, because he practiced sorcery and enticed and led Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and plead in his behalf.' But, not having found anything in his favor,
they hanged him on the eve of Passover" (Sanhedrin 43a; cf. t. Sanh. 10:11; y. Sanh. 7:12; Tg. Esther 7:9).
There is Much Much Much more, but this will suffice. Should you desire further instruction on the subject Paidion, I would recommend you purchase McDowell's book "New Evidence That Demands A Verdict."