Are fallen angels active on the earth?

[Guest]

I think the case Paidion makes is good. In Genesis the sixth chapter we see what happens after the mating of fallen angels with earthly women. The days of the giants follows. The wickedness became so great that God was grieved to the point of initiating the flood.
It seems there are angels and angels who fell. It does not seem like angels become demons but that angels who fall become fallen angels. These hybrids, physically destroyed in the flood seem likely (to me) to very possibly be the spirits referred to as demons. I have read books and visited various websites dealing with the bones of extremely large giants having six fingers and toes and a double row of teeth. I think the scriptures that stand out to me when I read Gen. 6 have to do with the wickedness and evil thinking that dominated the known world from the time of this taking of wives until the destruction of all but the 8 in the ark.
I know there are other theories but this does seem pretty plausible.

[_Rick_C]

I don't have time to post my own thoughts on this right now. But I do have a link that has some very interesting information, though I do not agree with everything this author teaches and/or believes:

Biblical Topics, by Bryan T. Huie

Under THE SPIRIT REALM, click: Fallen Angles and Demons. I highly recommend reading all of Huie's articles under this section just for the sheer weight of information he's gathered. I've emailed him a couple of times and he always answers promptly: Nice guy.

Paidion,
I posted links to these articles by Huie on another thread but you didn't see them:
"The Heavenly Divine Council"
"Gen 6 -- Who were the "Sons of God?" <<<Everyone, this is good too!
I'm pretty sure you would like both of these.
They have somewhat radically altered my beliefs....

According to scripture, demons do play a role in influencing humans. We do not know, however, if demons are fallen angels. So a direct answer to your question is not provided by scripture.

Danny (Mort),
This is probably a matter of interpretation...not to go into it right now tho,

All,
People like Bryan Huie and myself look to extra-biblical writings (and/or non-canonical literature) to find what was believed at the time of Jesus---when the Bible doesn't say--or to just understand the people of the time better. In other words, this literature tells what the various types of Jews of the First Century, slash, Intertestamental Era (200BC-150AD) believed. This falls under "historical context and background" in biblical hermeneutics.

Jude, the Lord's brother, quoted from 1 Enoch which may indicate Jesus was familiar with this book. I personally believe He was and that He believed much (if not most?) of what the book taught.

In the Early Church it was a fairly common belief to see the Nephilim of Ge 6:4 as fallen angels who mated with women; Nephilim from the Hebrew root nephal, meaning: "to fall." So, imo, the Nephilim were: The Fallen Ones (powerful angelic beings who came (fell down) from heaven). Btw, there are other interpretations of the Hebrew root and word. Mine is right tho!

This belief was basically wiped-out at the Council of Laodicea (363-364AD) when the Church officially condemned beliefs that had stemmed and continued from Judaism that didn't conform to the Church's teaching of the time. But there have probably always been Christians who take a more "Jewish" view of the Scriptures--as opposed to Post-Apostolic (Gentile) thought.

I wasn't supposed to say much!
But I've been studying this topic for several years: Fascinating!
gtg,
Rick

[Guest]

Rick_C Thanks for the heads up on this website. I also found Huie's writings to be very interesting.

[Guest]

Rick C-

i also found those articles very interesting. if i understand Huie correctly, he states that demons are what were "left" after the nephilim died. - i.e what we call demons are the departed spirits of the nephilim. is that what you understand him to be saying?

TK

[Guest]

TK and Rick, I enjoyed the article and would be interested in your present opinion on such a notion. I believe that the mysteries of God and His complete creation are so vast and incomprehensible to mere mortals that we simply do not have enough capablities to understand.

I am a born skeptic, but I lean towards this view with a few apprehensions. Sometime ago I posted on another discussion board a picture of a super sized human skeleton unearthed with obvious distortions compared to a normal human skeleton. It could have been a fake and I never heard anything about it before. The skeleton was unearthed in Europe years ago. Now that picture is not available as it is now a dead link. All very interesting ( I ramble).

I found the phot, but I believe it is more a hoax than truth.

[Guest]

Allyn, that photo (and the others like it) is a known hoax. It was an entry into a photo manipulation contest.

[Guest]

That was my suspicion JC. As I mentioned I am a natural skeptic.

[_Rick_C]

Truthseeker,

I'm glad you found the articles informative. Once again, I like them mainly for all of the 'textual' information Huie gives but differ with his theology in several areas, which I want to list:
1. Huie is probably(?) Binitarian and does not believe in the "Person" of the Holy Spirit...while I'm Trinitarian.
2. He's Premillennial...I'm Amillennial.
3. If I'm not mistaken, Huie is Sabbatarian (worships on the 'Sabbath' or Saturday)...I'm not 'dogmatic' about that either way.
4. There are other particular differences but I can't recall them offhand; I just appreciate this man's studies/scholarship (though I don't agree with all of his conclusions). I use his articles more for references than anything....

Also, Huie fully convinced me on one of his views: That Jesus was raised on a Sabbath (Saturday). However, by our modern clock it would be "early Sunday morning while still dark outside"...See, WHEN WAS CHRIST RESURRECTED? if interested.

Hello TK,

i also found those articles very interesting. if i understand Huie correctly, he states that demons are what were "left" after the nephilim died. - i.e what we call demons are the departed spirits of the nephilim. is that what you understand him to be saying?

I studied this out a few years ago using Huie's "Fallen Angels and Demons" article as a spring-board, so to speak. It gets pretty technical.

However, since the hybrid nephilim had both physical and spiritual natures, they were able to survive (in a fashion) the deaths of their physical bodies. These hybrid spirits, which were not part of God's creation, had nowhere to go when their physical existence ceased. 1 Enoch tells us what became of the departed spirits of these crossbreeds:

1 ENOCH 15:8 And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon 9 the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; 10 they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless 12 hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them. (The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, R.H. Charles)

The departed spirits of the nephilim became what we know as "demons." These entities are mentioned in the Old Testament (for example, see Lev. 17:7; Deu. 32:17; II Chr. 11:15; Psa. 106:37), and numerous times in the New Testament, where they are called "demons," "unclean spirits," and "evil spirits."

Did this answer your question? I'm open to Huie's answer but haven't reached a conclusion.

Actually, Huie's articles on The Divine Council and Gen. 6 -- "Sons of God" are the ones I've followed up on the most. I have a LOT of stuff on it (but unfortunately recently lost all of my notes due to a Windows98 crash)! Briefly, I did a study of Psalms 82, on to Deuteronomy 32:8 (Dead Sea Scrolls reading "sons of God" (angels and/or gods/divinities, imo!)...taking it all the way to Jesus in John 10:34-36. Now this, I would really like to discuss some time! And, to be honest (open and up-front) about it; what I theorize would probably seen as heretical. I've thought about getting a blog so I could write my stuff out but haven't as of yet. If anyone would be interested, I could start a thread under the "Essays" section (which is where you can post "your own views" that may not be or aren't so 'traditional'...anyways).

I've also studied 1 Enoch and the above passage. My view (or theory) is somewhat different about what the passage means; I take a another angle on it. It would take some time to go into; lots of details involved.

On "giants"
The Greek OT (Septuagint), 1 Enoch, and other Greek texts have gigantes ("giants") instead of the original Hebrew, nephilim ("the fallen ones"). There's a fairly long trail on what these differences are about. I don't think Huie addresses this. If I'm not wrong, he assumes the nephilim were (actual) giants. I disagree with that. Once more, many details to look at on this also. Too bad I lost my notes: New computer coming before too long, I'm planning!

Allyn,

What's that elf doing putting a Q-tip in the skull of John Wayne?
That little piLLLLLgrim better watchout!

God bless y'all,
Rick

[_Rick_C]

Paidion,

I posted this before on another thread but you didn't see it.

In Psalm 82 it is written, "God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment" Later in the Psalm, He says to the gods, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, you shall die like men, and fall like any prince." Psalm 82:6-7

Check this out!

Psalms 82 (NET Bible)

A psalm of Asaph.

82:1 God stands in the assembly of El;
in the midst of the gods he renders judgment.

82:2 He says, “How long will you make unjust legal decisions
and show favoritism to the wicked? (Selah)

82:3 Defend the cause of the poor and the fatherless!
Vindicate the oppressed and suffering!

82:4 Rescue the poor and needy!
Deliver them from the power of the wicked!

82:5 They neither know nor understand.
They stumble around in the dark,
while all the foundations of the earth crumble.

82:6 I thought [Hebrew, said], ‘You are gods; [Jesus quoted this]
all of you are sons of the Most High.’

82:7 Yet you will die like mortals;
you will fall like all the other rulers.”

82:8 Rise up, O God, and execute judgment on the earth!
For you own all the nations.

Did you see that? Verse 1, El, the Most High God of Melchizedek!
(El, known to be the father of the gods and of humanity in pre-biblical ancient texts). Was El Yahweh (or Jehovah)? Is He now? Did the ancient Hebrews see El and Yahweh as the same deity? Of Jesus it was said, "He shall be called the Son of the Most High God" (El, if you see where I'm going with this)...
But I have to go before the heresy hunters come out! lol
Rick

P.S. Besides, I'm getting off topic.
P.S.S. You have an extra post on "Jesus in the Talmud", Don

[Guest]

I did see your post, Rick. I'm wondering why you think I didn't.