Who is the Devil and What are Demons?

[Eli]

I had a question and this seems like a good place to pose it.
I have been finding more and more that the concepts that most people hold about demons and about the Devil himself don’t seem to be biblically supported.
I’m sure most of you have all heard that the devil was an angel and that he rebelled agains God and was cast out.
Additionally we have all heard that he resides in “Hell” and is responcible for the tourment of unrighteous people whom have died and gone to “Hell”.
And in regards to the fallen angels, which most people believe are demons.
It seems logical that people have developed a symmetry here, God and the devil, Christ and Antichrist, angels and Demons.
In the bible however The devil (Satan) is not called an angel and there is no reference to his rebellion.
In John 8:44 it says
“You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, “
Indicating that the Devil was evil since the beginning, which kind of suggest that he wasn’t an angel because if he was an angel he would have been good at least at one point before he rebelled.
In my reading I haven’t found that the angels that were cast out of heaven became demons, the word demon in the bible as I see it always referres to evil spirits whom inhabit humans or in some context seem to be a word used for pegan gods or dieties, as an example
Leviticus 17:7
They shall no more offer their sacrifices to demons
Deuteronomy 32:17
They sacrificed to demons, not to God
2 Chronicles 11:15
Then he appointed for himself priests for the high places, for the demons, and the calf idols which he had made.
To me this kind of indicates that demons were being sacrificed too they are talked about in context with idols which are commonly associated with pegan religions.
And finally Antichrist which John says there are many of, as well as describing antichrist as being basically a person denying the father and the son.
So it seems that the semitry that a lot of people assume isn’t actually supported, God and the Devil Jesus and the antichrist angels and demons.
So my question is this…
Who is the devil? Know he is our adversary our accuser and the tempter of men, but where did he come from? Where is he now?
What are demons? The angles who left their position in heaven were imprisoned in Tartarus until the judgment how can they be demons roaming the world at the same time? And in the story of the Jesus when he cast out legion, and the demon begged Jesus not to cast them into the abyss, is the abyss and Tartarus the same thing?
I know I have posed a lot of inquirees and said a lot of stuff but if anyone has any insight on this I’d love to hear it, I really want o understand this.
Thanks
Eli

[jeremiah]

hello eli,

i think your observations are correct.

Who is the devil? Know he is our adversary our accuser and the tempter of men, but where did he come from? Where is he now?

in my opinion, scripture doesn't tell us where he came from. the only thing i can say for sure is that God created him. i don't think hell is inhabited by anybody yet, so he's not there currently. i think that if the scriptures don't clearly answer these questions than it must mean God didn't think we needed to know them.

grace and peace...

[Eli]

I can agree with that,it isn't very crucial information it just amazes me how much extra-biblical information has come about and people especially non Christians think they know all the details about this and several other things in the bible when a lot of those ideals came from other sources. Most notable the works of Milton and Dante.
Thanks for your input Jeremiah.

[john6809]

Eli,

I also think you are on the right track. I have some of the same questions, and also believe what Jeremiah said - maybe God didn't think we needed to know.

One question I do have that maybe someone can answer - I have heard the teaching that the devil was a murderer from the beginning. Why do people seem to automatically think that the beginning refers to something other than the beginning of human history? To my mind, that would be a rather natural reading. It doesn't preclude the devil having been a murderer before human history nor the possibility of his having fallen from glory. I don't actually believe that the bible gives any evidence of the devil being a fallen angel, by the way. I just don't know which beginning was being spoken of here: the beginning of Satan's existence (his creation by God), the beginning of his fall (if that holds any truth), or the beginning of human history.

God bless as you seek Him.
John

[Perry]

Eli,
You may be surprised to find that you're not alone in your observations. The view of Satan as a fallen angel is so prevalent, it's hard to even bring it up with most believers. You may find Steve's second lecture in the Spiritual Warfare series interesting in this regard... Origin of Satan

[Eli]

I had that same thought as well John, I would say that a logical break down would kind of lean toward it referring to the beginning of human kind, because who would be around to murder if there weren’t people? To my understanding only God would have the power to “kill” an angel and I don’t know of any other spirit beings then them.
I also believe that there may be an interesting deeper layer to that scripture as well in that is the word “murder” literal? We know that the term spiritually dead refers to the unsaved and being as the Devil has much to do with the unsaved is murder perhaps talking about spiritual murder?
He is the father of lies and it was a lie that tempted Adam and Eve to eat the fruit, in addition that was the beginning. So it would seem we can extrapolate that Satan was up to his tricks since the very beginning of human kind he has always been a deceiver and always been trying to destroy Gods creations.
That was a great question and I believe we have nailed down at least some of the story as a result thanks John. 
Perry Thanks you for pointing that out for me I will definitely be listing to that, as a matter of fact I’ll probably start when I’m done writing this response. 
Thanks you both for your comments.
This is a good conversation I hope it continues.

[mattrose]

I lean toward an unorthodox belief. I lean (in light of limited biblical information) toward the idea that Satan was created as a testing agent. God made this testing agent for our benefit (since there is value in testing). But as human beings began to fail the tests more and more, this testing agent began to take great pride in his work and became corrupt (along with humans). In some ways this is not all that dissimilar from the 'fallen angel' view. The novelty of my position, as far as I can tell, is that human sin actually played a part in the testing agent becoming corrupt.

[Eli]

That is a very interesting idea mattrose
I have never heard anything of the like. Can you site some scripture or take me through your thought process on this?

[mattrose]

There is a pretty good discussion of it in this thread

http://www.theos.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 21&start=0

But if I get some time I may throw something together