Before the foundation of the world?

[21centpilgrim]

The phrase- 'before the foundation of the world'. What does it mean?

Here are some verses that use this wording.

John 17:24
Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.

Eph. 1:4
even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

1Pet. 1:20
He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you

Rev. 13:8
and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

The things connected to this phrase have significant theological impact.
Thanks for any thoughts.

[dizerner]

Before God said "Let there be."

[Paidion]

I suggest that many of the expressions which speak of what God did "before the foundation of the world" refer to His plans for mankind, right from the beginning.

[Singalphile]

I was thinking about that the other day. It sounds like a figure of speech (maybe that's obvious), and I was curious if it shows up in any other writings back then. If I remember correctly, Jesus used the phrase in another place which seems to be a quote or paraphrase from a Psalm.

Seems to me like it refers to something long planned or known. Maybe it's a kind of prolepsis in some cases.

This is my first post from a dentist's chair!

[TheEditor]

For another possible meaning, certainly not the preferred among orthodox circles, but a possible one; the term "founding" is katabole and has reference to a "founding" similar to seed being "cast down" by a farmer.

katabolē
kat-ab-ol-ay'
From G2598; a deposition, that is, founding; figuratively conception: - conceive, foundation.

Jesus talked about the judgment on the generation of his listeners in Luke when he said, "so that the blood of all the prophets spilled from the founding [katabole] of the world may be required from this generation,  from the blood of Abel down to the blood of Zechariah, who was slain between the altar and the house.’ Yes, I tell YOU, it will be required from this generation. (Luke 11:50-51)

Certainly the "world" technically existed before Abel, but the same word is used. So, that being said, this could be a reference to God's plan after the fall but before the first child was born, which would have been when "conception", katabole, of the "world" would have begun. Worthy of consideration anyway.

Regards, Brenden.

[dizerner]

Abel was the first murder it doesn't literally mean the world was founded when Abel was born. Scripture indicates God's spoken words are the foundation of all creation, both what initially created all things and what upholds all things.

[TheEditor]

Hi Dizerner,

I didn't say this view was correct, but that it was worthy of consideration. Your response is not what the verses say, it says "before the foundation [founding] of the world", not, "the founding of all creation."

Regards, Brenden.