Why is God's church and bible in its current condition?

[Jim]

I'm just curious... If Christ is the head of the Orthodox Church, why does it need a "collegial system of government"? Is Christ not able to rule His followers directly, without a hierarchy of men between He and them?

That would depend on how you view the Church and the means of God. Each person has been gifted and given roles, none is greater, some do have more honor, each is person is important to the life of the Church. Christ has set from the beginning shepperds and overseers, over the church, not just local churches aka parishes, but also over the whole of His people. This does not mean orthodoxy has always been perfect or that wrong things have entered into the Church, but those things get worked out, corrected and removed. Holy Tradition is the life of the entire Church, both heaven and earth, through the entire history of the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit and Ruled by Christ Jesus. U nity and organization would be important to any Kingdom don't you think?

Do you think the disunity in western christianity, were factions rule the day is honoring God? Now that I am looking from the outside of western christianity, it looks as if the western church is all about individualism and not oneness.

The sad thing is, the Roman Bishops, have so wounded the western church with their sins that it has created a deep level of distrust which satan has taken hold of and created more Chaos and disunity.

[Jim]

Why does God choose to present His Bible, His message, in a way that instead of being unequivocable in its meaning, is subject to multiple interpertations and therefore multiple translations of the Bible?

Which Bible? Thoughout the early centuries of Christendom, there was disagreement as to which writings were authoritative --- to be read in the churches.

Finally, Athanasius list in 367 was accepted in 393 by a synod in Hippo. His list of 27 books for the New Testament are identical to the list used today by both Catholics and Protestants. But in the Old Testament, Athanasius included Baruch, and the letter of Jeremiah.

According to Wikipedia, he "placed the Book of Esther among the 7 books not in the canon but to be read. along with the Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), Judith, Tobit, the Didache, and the Shepherd of Hermas."

As we know, Catholics currently accept OT books as part of their canon which Protestants reject. So, I ask again, Which Bible is "God's message"? Indeed, no Bible appears to be God's message to mankind at all. Various parts are meant for various readers. I know of no one today who practises the detailed laws of Leviticus, not even Orthodox Jews.

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness


What maybe interesting is that this passage may not just speaking of the body of writings any of the churchs call the Bible, but may also include any true Christian writings! Are not all inspired by God wether it is writing concerning the faith or opening a soup kitchen for the poor?

[Danny]

I'm just curious... If Christ is the head of the Orthodox Church, why does it need a "collegial system of government"? Is Christ not able to rule His followers directly, without a hierarchy of men between He and them?

If the bible is the word of G-d, why do churches need pastors to sermonize it? Why put a preacher between the word and the people?

Exactly!

Jim wrote: Do you think the disunity in western christianity, were factions rule the day is honoring God?

Hi Jim,

I don't think the diversity in Western Christianity dishonors God. It is how we deal with that diversity that can be dishonoring towards God.

-Danny

[Jim]

Jim wrote: Do you think the disunity in western christianity, were factions rule the day is honoring God?

Hi Jim,

I don't think the diversity in Western Christianity dishonors God. It is how we deal with that diversity that can be dishonoring towards God.

-Danny

Danny,

Do you believe that the Lord has installed nations and governments aka authorities for a purpose?

If So, how much more would he do the very same thing for His own Body?

We can see in history what happens when an authority within the church goes wrong aka Roman Catholicism, I do believe that many in the west and the generations afterwards struggle against the wounds caused by the secession of roman bishops. These wounds have caused many in western christianity to build up walls against authority structures that appear similiar to RCism (which is understandable) but what happens if those walls also keeps people blind and refusing to hear in many respects? What happens when those walls built by wounds makes the person into "by my understanding alone" and unbridled me-ism?

Do you honestly think that diversity is honoring God? Is He not a God of order, of unity? Did not Paul call us to be One Body, not many bodies?

[kaufmannphillips]

Danny wrote:
I'm just curious... If Christ is the head of the Orthodox Church, why does it need a "collegial system of government"? Is Christ not able to rule His followers directly, without a hierarchy of men between He and them?

kaufmannphillips wrote:
If the bible is the word of G-d, why do churches need pastors to sermonize it? Why put a preacher between the word and the people?

Danny wrote:
Exactly!

Churches need governors and sermonizers because so many of the people are infantile. And because G-d is a mime and nearly all the people have ADHD and a Michael Bay movie is playing concurrently with a live strip-show and catering by Izzy's Buffet.

[Michelle]

Churches need governors and sermonizers because so many of the people are infantile. And because G-d is a mime and nearly all the people have ADHD and a Michael Bay movie is playing concurrently with a live strip-show and catering by Izzy's Buffet.

Yowsers, what a metaphor.

[Danny]

Churches need governors and sermonizers because so many of the people are infantile. And because G-d is a mime and nearly all the people have ADHD and a Michael Bay movie is playing concurrently with a live strip-show and catering by Izzy's Buffet.

A little over the top, but I like it! Maybe if Christians weren't spoon-fed by "governors" and "sermonizers" they might grow into mature followers of Jesus.

Jim, were your questions rhetorical or did you want me to answer them?

[kaufmannphillips]

Maybe if Christians weren't spoon-fed by "governors" and "sermonizers" they might grow into mature followers of Jesus.

Well, we can leave infants with their food and a spoon, and see what they do with it.

Let us take our metaphor further. Infants generally by nature become more mature and do things for themselves. Most Christians don't. So what we have is an epidemic of developmentally-challenged infants. The question, then: is this congenital, or environmental?

[Danny]

I suspect that, at least in modern North American culture, it is both.

We are, to a large extent, a "consumer culture." People in our culture tend to look at church as a "vendor of religious goods & services." If the worship music doesn't suit them or the seats aren't comfy or the pastor is a bit boring, they leave and go to the purveyor down the street.

Church institutions, by and large, aren't designed to challenge people into discipleship. Christians in our culture, by and large, do not want to be challenged. The former is happy to have an attentive (and tithe paying) audience; the latter is happy to be an attentive (as long as it's entertaining) audience.

The solution? I don't know. Perhaps it must be a work of God that motivates some to begin feeding themselves and feeding one another.

[Priestly1]

When has there not been disputations, disagreements, rigorists, ascetics, puritans and separatists in Church history? There was arguments and conflicts among the Disciples when Christ was here, then arguments, conflicts and eventual splits within a few years after Christ departed for Heaven. We have the Gospels and Acts to show us this. Paul and the Apostles wrote Letters and Encyclicals to correct the constant internal and external threats to the Church they had spread throughout the Roman and Parthan Empires. They had to deal with "Home Grown" errors in Faith, Practice and Discipline, as well as External "Worldly" inroads of belief, practice and behavior...not to mention Imperial sanctions, suppression, persecutions and punishments....not to mention all kinds of Jewish and Pagan inspired attacks upon Jewish and Gentile Nazaraeans.

The issue is the rapid infiltration, co-opting and transformation of all Euro-American Christianity into Microcosms of the Darkened Cultures it was established to illuminate with the Light of Christ. The increase of Cults and Cult Leaders from within the Church. The resurgence and cancerous spread of ancient Heresies of all kinds. The glut of every kind of Bible, Commentaries and Study Aids the Church has ever seen, yet the consistent rise in Biblical illiteracy is the highest it's been since the Dark Ages. The issue is FALSE GOSPELS and FALSE CHRIST'S do not save, redeem, transform or empower..........they kill and make the Truth that much harder to accept by the Masses, as they see what is really being lifted up and it revolts them and does not draw them. Many False Prophets and AntiChrists have gone out FROM AMONG US! If wolves cannot be distinguished by the shepherds, how then can a flock survive? Churchianity has stopped judging those within and had switch to judging those without......that is the issue. There are thieves in the Temple, and a flock that no longer discerns between Truth and Error, Light and Darkness and the Law and Lawlessness. The Western Church is so filled by those who have lost their spiritual sense of place, history, ancient heritage and have become drunk, naked and asleep by the affluenza of modern Euro-American Societies. We attack brothers and embrace enemies, we tolerate sin so that our sin will be tolerated.......we serve an Idol called "Man." The Mark is a human number 666.

First must come the Great Apostasy, the Divine judgment of the Church.....and then comes the man of Sin and the divine judgment of the world.

Oh.....did I tell you I am a Historic (Historist) PreMillenialist as was the Ancient Church....that is until Christendom arrived (Christianized Roman Empire) with it's Imperial Catholic Church that is. A connection? Yup.



In Christ,
Rev. Ken