mikew wrote:Well. When you shift to a different section of Romans 2, then you change the topic about which Paul was talking.
Nope, just putting things into their proper context and proper order.
Its true that in Rom 2:11 that Paul was talking about Gentiles. Yet you make a mistake associating Jer 31:31-33 with Romans 2:11-15 in the sense that Paul was not speaking about saved Gentiles in this statement but rather was making an argument to show that Gentiles too would face judgment. It wasn't Jews alone, under Law, that had been facing that time of wrath, but also Gentiles without the Law (vs 14).
Paul was simply saying, and I agree with him, is that when the gentiles who were born outside of the law to the acts of the law then it is evidence that the "law" is written in their hearts, which is exactly what Gos said He would do. Think of the parable of "the Good Samaritan."
The "doers" are much more justified than the "hearers."
So Paul was talking about Gentiles in general. Maybe if Paul's topic was about believers among Gentiles, then the passage from Jer 31 might apply to Gentiles.
Paul is equating "belief" with doing the work of the law. Who is more "justified" Mike, the hearer of the law or the doer? Romans 2 is awfully suggestive that true "law keeping" is equated with true "law doing." We should do the things of the law because it is right right thing to do, not for what we think we'll get out of it.
But in Rom 2:17-29 Paul was addressing ideas about Jews. The passage before talking about "circumcision of the heart" (vv 25-29). In verse 25 it speaks of "your circumcision" -- something still applicable only to Jews.
It's figurative Mike.
There was no transition of topic to now start including Gentiles in vs 25-29.
Paul very clearly says that, "A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical." Which goes directly with Paul's suggesting that when the things of the law are simply done it is evidence of the law written on the heart. He was telling those in Rome that the "physical" Jew is convicted by the work of "uncircumcised" gentile.
Plus, the overall context doesn't support the idea that Paul would be talking about Gentiles in vv. 17 to 29.
Oh, Mike, how can you miss this - that's exactly who Paul is talking about. The evidence of God in their life (law in the heart) is made known by the work in their life. I'd rather have a non-Christian that has evidence of God in their life through the good works they perform than a Christian pew-warmer that merely talks a good game.
The Roman audience would have ripped up his letter if Paul started saying that Gentiles had to become Jews/Israel.
On the inside.....
"No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God."
Matthew Henry said,
"No forms, ordinances, or notions can profit, without regenerating grace, which will always lead to seeking an interest in the righteousness of God by faith. For he is no more a Christian now, than he was really a Jew of old, who is only one outwardly: neither is that baptism, which is outward in the flesh: but he is the real Christian, who is inwardly a true believer, with an obedient faith. And the true baptism is that of the heart, by the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the Holy Ghost; bringing a spiritual frame of mind, and a willing following of truth in its holy ways. Let us pray that we may be made real Christians, not outwardly, but inwardly; in the heart and spirit, not in the letter; baptized, not with water only, but with the Holy Ghost; and let our praise be, not of men, but of God."
