speaking in tongues

[wwalkeriv]

That is exactly the premise behind every man and every woman being filled with the Holy Ghost. Unless and until you have been filled with the Holy Spirit according to the teachings of Jesus Christ, you are an empty vessel – an empty tabernacle – an empty temple – void, empty, and alone. Without the Baptism of the Holy Ghost,

Are you saying that Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a separate event from the Holy Spirit coming upon you at the time of repentance? If so, can one be saved without having gone through this separate event? Are tongues the evidence of this event?

[verbatim]

wwalkeriv wrote:

Are you saying that Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a separate event from the Holy Spirit coming upon you at the time of repentance?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
2 Tim 2:15 Let us divide rightly the words of truth…Repent…and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins…and ye shall receive the gift of Holy Ghost.
It is clear that the first thing to do is to repent, and every one must be baptized in the name of (?) Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and the last we shall receive the gift of Holy Ghost.
So, there are three events in one verse; repentance, baptism in the name of (?) Jesus Christ and receiving the gift of Holy Ghost. Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
wwalkeriv wrote:

If so, can one be saved without having gone through this separate event?

Scripture is clear, Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
wwalkeriv wrote:

Are tongues the evidence of this event?

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Furthermore, the Apostle Paul taught that Jesus' indwelling Spirit was ESSENTIAL TO SALVATION: "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His," Romans 8:9.
All Scriptures are KJV

[Perry]

Verbatim,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be suggesting if one does NOT speak in tongues then they have NOT received the indwelling of the spirit. If I'm reading you correctly, you're quoting Mark 16:17 in defense of that position.

Mark 16:17-18 actually lists FIVE signs that shall follow those that believe:

1). Casting out devils.
2). Speaking in tongues.
3). Safe from poisonous snake bites.
4). Ability to drink any toxic liquid and be undamaged.
5). Ability, via laying on of hands, to heal sickness.

Of these five, you've claimed only tongues (so far). I'm curious, of the other four signs besides tongues, how many of these signs have manifested in your life?

[wwalkeriv]

Verbatim,
I agree with the scriptures you listed which say "receive" the Holy Spirit not baptized in the Holy Spirit. And, I understand that repentance, baptism and receiving are three sepapate events. My question is: is there a separate event, namely, baptism in the Holy Spirit apart from the receiving of the Holy Spirit? Is this separate event required for salvation?

[verbatim]

Perry wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be suggesting if one does NOT speak in tongues then they have NOT received the indwelling of the spirit. If I'm reading you correctly, you're quoting Mark 16:17 in defense of that position.

Mark 16:17-18 actually lists FIVE signs that shall follow those that believe:

1). Casting out devils.
2). Speaking in tongues.
3). Safe from poisonous snake bites.
4). Ability to drink any toxic liquid and be undamaged.
5). Ability, via laying on of hands, to heal sickness.

Of these five, you've claimed only tongues (so far). I'm curious, of the other four signs besides tongues, how many of these signs have manifested in your life?

Speaking in tongues is one of the gifts of Holy Ghost upon baptism. The 5 gifts mentioned in Mark 16:17-18 are list of probable gifts that a believer was given to the elders and apostle in early years of Christianity and I’m not sure if it were still being given in our present ages.

1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; (KJV)

But there are Scriptures saying that; 1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Today we can hear that there are some religious sects that were speaking in tongues as wwalkeriv has observed that the sound almost frighten him and that is not the tongues I’m testifying for but the one written in Zephaniah 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

[verbatim]

wwalkeriv wrote:
From the beginning of history of man there is only one dialect or one language which were unknown and no one could proved if what is the first language that Adam and his descendant has speak.

Gen 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
Hence he says, But then will I turn to the people a pure lip. God intimates that he would propagate his grace wider, after having cleansed the earth; for he will be worshipped not only in Judea, but by foreign nations, and even by the remotest. For it might have been objected, Will God then extinguish his name in the world?
But he speaks first of a pure lip, I will turn, he says, to the nations a pure lip. By this word he means, that the invocation of God’s name is his peculiar work; for men do not pray through the suggestion of the flesh, but when God draws them. It is indeed true, that God has ever been invoked by all nations; but it was not the right way of praying, when they heedlessly cast their petitions into the air: and we also know, that the true God was not invoked by the nations; for there was no nation then in the world which had not formed for itself some idol. As then the earth was full of innumerable idols. Besides, though the unbelieving had an intention to pray to God, yet they could not have prayed rightly, for prayer flows from faith. God then does not without reason promise, that he would turn pure lips to the nations; that is, that he would cause the nations to call on his name with pure lips. We hence then learn what I have stated—that God cannot be rightly invoked by us, until he draws us to himself; for we have profane and impure lips. In short, the beginning of prayer is from that hidden cleansing of the Spirit of which the Prophet now speaks.
But if it be God’s singular gift, to turn a pure lip to the nations, it follows that faith is conferred on us by him, for both are connected together. As God then purifies the hearts of men by faith, so also he purifies their lips that his name may be rightly invoked.

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

[wwalkeriv]

Verbatim,
I don't intend to be rude, I just can't see how my question was answered in your response.

My question is: is there a separate event, namely, baptism in the Holy Spirit apart from the receiving of the Holy Spirit? Is this separate event required for salvation?

By the way, thank you for sharing the dialogue with me.

[verbatim]

wwalkeriv wrote:
I don't intend to be rude, I just can't see how my question was answered in your response.
wwalkeriv wrote:

My question is: is there a separate event, namely, baptism in the Holy Spirit apart from the receiving of the Holy Spirit?

Sorry,if I had not been able to address your question and allow me to respond to you through Scripture. It was a common doctrine of almost all religion to receive the Holy Spirit and Act 19:2
Is asking us if; He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Check our ownself, did you really received the Holy Spirit? How? Yes, through baptism. Who then baptized you and did you feel that you receive the Holy Spirit? Who among men are given authority to baptize through unknown Holy name of Christ? I think nobody can understand how to receive the Holy Ghost unless Jesus personally baptizes him.
John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
wwalkeriv wrote:

Is this separate event required for salvation?

Yes, this is a hidden manna of believers of Jesus Christ name

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

The new song is the pure language mentioned in Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Thanks and God bless.

[wwalkeriv]

Thank you for the response. I have never heard this viewpoint before. As I stated earlier, I've, also, never really studied the subject either. It seems to me you are drawing conclusions from several different passages. The way you present them makes it seem as if they are one flow of thought, when in fact they are from various places in the bible. Perhaps I'll dive into this a little more when I have time.

[verbatim]

wwalkeriv wrote:

Thank you for the response. I have never heard this viewpoint before. As I stated earlier, I've, also, never really studied the subject either. It seems to me you are drawing conclusions from several different passages. The way you present them makes it seem as if they are one flow of thought, when in fact they are from various places in the bible. Perhaps I'll dive into this a little more when I have time.

Praise the Lord who saith in Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Isa 48:18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Rev 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

Rev 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.


John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.


John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

All of these verses are pointing to speaking in tongues which s will be written in Jer 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Thanks and God bless.