Knowing who speaks the truth of God - NT?

[Barnsweb]

Found this on an internet search for 'is Paul a liar' - it's odd that Muslims can see that Paul himself said he's a liar. It doesn't look like Christianity will convert many to the Lord so long as they uphold the teachings of Paul instead?



Sami Zaatari







If you were ever wondering as to why missionaries uses deceit and lies to lure people into their false faith, then look no further than the fake apostle Paul. In Paul missionaries have their legitimacy to lie and deceive the innocent, in Paul they have the legitimacy to act like something they aren't, basically to put a fake image for yourself to lure you into their trap.



Paul admitted he is a liar in 1 Corinthians chapter 9 verses 19-22:



19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

So notice Paul clearly says to a Jew he acted like a Jew to lure them, and to the pagans and none Jews he acted like one of them to simply lure them in!

It is precisely from this teaching that missionaries get their deceitful tactics from, going into Africa as humanitarian workers when their only goal is to lure people into the false faith of Christianity. They also do this in Iraq, they act as friends with the Muslims then being the deceivers they are they try to lure the Muslims into the false faith. This is why you can NEVER trust a single missionary because each missionary has one goal, to convert you to the false faith of Christianity, and they will do whatever they can, they will even act as Muslim, Jew, or even an atheist! As Paul said, he acted like a Jew, and a pagan to gain people.

Paul continues to testify that he is a liar, in 2 Corinthians chapter 12:16 Paul himself said:

Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty (panourgos) fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery (dolos)!



The word trickery here, dolos in Greek, is mainly used in a bad sense in the Bible, in the sense that someone is a liar, and Paul here admits through crafty means he managed to trick the people.



This is what missionaries do 24-7, such as answering-Islam, they use a lot of crafty techniques to trick the Muslims into their false lies, such as distorting the teachings of Islam, and even the teachings of their own Bible!



No human can have any confidence in a SINGLE missionary, even Christians themselves must be weary of missionaries, because missionaries get their teachings from Paul, Paul admits he is a liar and uses deceptive means to gain people, hence missionaries will do the same, so you have no idea as to when their being truthful!



So to all Muslims, if you read any missionary website, such as answering-Islam, remember these crucial points. Even if you find some of answering-Islam's points to be hard to understand, and hard to refute, do not be swayed because even a liar can make a good articulate argument, look how many have been deceived by the liar that is satan!



Lest any missionary feels offended then I do NOT apologize as I am simply quoting his own book, his own book from which he derives his example and teachings from. It is the missionaries own book that shows Paul is a liar from the mouth of the liar himself!



And Allah indeed knows best!



http://www.muslim-responses.com

[Michelle]

Wow, Barnsweb, you've got two large groups on your side! Good on you!

I have a question about how rejecting the Apostle Paul affects the way you serve the Lord. Does it change anything?

[steve7150]

Wow, Barnsweb, you've got two large groups on your side! Good on you!

I have a question about how rejecting the Apostle Paul affects the way you serve the Lord. Does it change anything?

Michelle

Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:16 pm





Michelle,

If you read his last line it reveals his motives.

[Michelle]

Wow, Barnsweb, you've got two large groups on your side! Good on you!

I have a question about how rejecting the Apostle Paul affects the way you serve the Lord. Does it change anything?

Michelle

Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:16 pm





Michelle,

If you read his last line it reveals his motives.

Touché

[steve]

19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

So notice Paul clearly says to a Jew he acted like a Jew to lure them, and to the pagans and none Jews he acted like one of them to simply lure them in!

It seems that you have a rhetorical problem here. If a man tells you outright what his strategy is, how is it, exactly, that he can be seen as a deceiver?

Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty (panourgos) fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery (dolos)!

Paul is using irony here. He is representing the accusations that his critics in Corinth say about him. It would be rather stupid for a man who really intended to deceive someone to tell them that this is exactly what he's doing.

It is precisely from this teaching that missionaries get their deceitful tactics from, going into Africa as humanitarian workers when their only goal is to lure people into the false faith of Christianity.

I have known hundreds of missionaries (no exaggeration). I have not met any who use deceptive tactics, though they might conceal the full nature of their mission from hostile authorirties. To conceal something is not to lie. If someone is walking alone at night in a seedy part of town, and chooses to slip off his Rolex and put it in his pocket, this is a reasonable case of concealing something—but it is not deception. Why do you think that going to Africa to provide humanitarian aide is not a real motivation of missionaries? Most missionaries I have known are not even preachers, but relief workers.

It is the missionaries own book that shows Paul is a liar from the mouth of the liar himself!

We require civility at this forum. Calling another brother a "liar" without having demonstrating the legitimacy of your claim is not civility. We may suffer fools gladly here—but some fools are so obnoxious that they will have to suffered elsewhere. It is clear that you care nothing about the truth about Paul, as every charge against him that you have raised has been handily refuted. You have no case, but this does not stop you from hurling insults at a brother whom you have not shown to be guilty of any sin. You are so lacking in the Spirit of Christ that your posts foul this forum. Do not post here again, except to repent. There are forums that welcome (and encourage) such foul spirits as yours. You picked the wrong one.

[steve]

I just deleted a post from Barnsweb which began with the words, "Deleting my posts can serve no purpose..." He wrote this because I had previously deleted two other of his posts which he posted yesterday. I deleted them because he has not repented and is clearly not here to interact with arguments. He is here to promote slander against a brother (and, therefore, against Christ). When he appeared to be simply an ignorant brother, I was glad to have discussion of his issues going on here. However, he became abusive and violated the standards of this forum, which are actually so generous that I have not deleted anyone else's posts, probably, in over a year.

[Bud]

Barnsweb is a deceiver not our brother, the apostle Paul. I'm glad you deleted his posts Steve.

[Singalphile]

For the sake of discussion ... I suppose that one could think that the apostles (including Paul) didn't necessarily have special authority or revelation on every issue. Paul himself said so once or twice, after all.

But the accusations of "liar" and the like are not acceptable, I think, especially when based on so little. Barnsweb's website has nothing that is very objectionable to me, although I just quickly reviewed the pages. The comments here seemed to me to be an odd departure.

[jriccitelli]

This is just two excerpts from a 'long’ on going correspondence I had with an ex-Mormon who had found the Del Tondo book ‘Jesus words only’. A book that attempts to make out Paul as a false teacher and worse. Note the guy here refers to me as LP, meaning ‘Loves Paul’:

LP, It's truly sad you really think you "know" the true & only way back to God. How arrogant especially since I have not heard you state as Saul & Smith did that God has appeared to you!! But oh yea that's why you & BACs con-cockted the BS "doctrine" that there are no revelations after Jesus death on the cross (oh except for Saul woops!)

The question is can you face facts and turn away from the false teachers that have deceived your mind or will you continue in that cult of Saulinisim while rejecting Jesus? I have just shown you HARD TO FACE FACTS FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS A RELIGION THEY HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED INTO FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME AND LOVE VERY MUCH TO FACE! BUT YOU MUST TRY TO FACE THE FACTS AND STOP WITH YOUR SPINNING of the Word of God! Face the facts that yes even the Bible has been messed with there are errors and mistranslations that change the meaning of words what is so hard to accept this fact? These acts were committed corrupte evil men these are facts!!!I await your reply LP good day.

Anyways the back and forth was ‘much’ more heated than this (I shouldn’t post the words he used), never the less we did have cordial discussions and we have actually met together (friendly enough) and had pizza together a few times.

I think this same thinking will pop up more and more in the future as it quickly gets grabbed onto by of course Muslims. I noticed Del Tondos book gets quoted by Muslims a bit online, and I suppose that may be a source for some of Sami’s arguments. They suppose Paul is the Liar referred to, and the Balaam of Revelation, this moves on into a Paul invented the Grace doctrine argument.

I did enjoy the debate though, and although it is easy enough to debunk, it is an attack on the Salvation by Grace doctrine (among others), and leads to a salvation by works.

[Michelle]

jriccitelli, have you read Del Tondo's book? I haven't, and I'm not really inclined to do so, except I'm curious in a can't-look-away-from-a-train-wreck kind of way. I have read J.P. Holdings three part review of the book. JPH really does a great job of tearing it apart.