Post-Modern Church

[Guest]

It seems to me that the term "post-modern" is a very poor one for any body of Christians. My understanding of the post-modern view of God is that it is not Christian.

For example:

Traditional Christian view: God is sovereign, actively involved in His creation. Nothing happens apart from His will, He either determines or allows (He always has a veto) everything that happens.

Modern view of God: If there is a God, He is not actively involved in the natural world. He's only an observer. Everything occurs naturally; there are no miracles.

Post-modern view of God: God does not directly intervene in nature, He is limited to working through people by influencing their actions. That is His only way to accomplish anything.

Has a movement in the Church adopted terminology from secular philosophy?

I am no expert on this subject and if wrong would appreciate correction. From what research I've done, it seems "post-modern" is a very poorly defined term, and one that the Church would do well to stay away from.

Blessings, Homer

[Guest]

Homer, I am no expert on post-modern ideology or theology, nor have I ever done significant research into this worldview, but it would seem to me that I have discovered the following about post-modernism during the times I've read their books, articles, etc.

1) Post-moderns are more concerned with experiential truth as opposed to absolute truth, i.e. "What's true for me may not be true for you, and what's right for me may not be what's right for you. They value all belief systems as being equally valid and true." Their only absolute truth is "There is no absolute truth." (Ironic, no? And a belief easily deconstructed for rational and logical minds.)

2) Post-moderns are typically very spiritual and/or responsive of or respectful towards spiritual beliefs or spiritual overtures. However, in their search for God and meaning, they'd rather experience God than be taught a bunch of doctrines and beliefs about Him, at least initially.

3) Post-moderns tend to be very wary of overt judgmentalism and hypocrisy. They value authenticity and continuity above all else, particularly in the area of relationships. They value relationships and community above formulas, traditions and rituals, but ironically, as children of the no-fault divorce generation, do not possess the proper skills necessary for building and sustaining good relationships.

4) Post-moderns tend to be very environmentally aware and socially conscious, meaning they value "making a difference" in the world. They are very sensitive to issues of civil and social injustice.

5) Post-moderns value diversity (cultural, social, racial, national, religion) as much as they do assimiliation. Thus, they prefer multi-cultural experiences but only within limited contexts. Tolerance is their rallying cry, but are very intolerant of those whom they perceive intolerant.

So, I'm sure you can see how many of these views are dangerous to a Christian worldview; however, they also provide incredible opportunities for the church, in that we can offer:

1) A a genuine community with intimate relationships
2) A valid and truthful experience with the divine
3) An avenue for working toward for social justice
4) A transcendant cause worth fighting for

The emerging church is the church that is emerging in response to the unique beliefs and demands of post-modern culture. It is in a process of transition and should not be believed to have "arrived" or fully emerged. The changes currently being made by the emerging churches (which are widely varied) are listed as follows.

1) Some are attempting to change the doctrine: "Homosexuality isn't a sin. Pre-marital sex isn't fornication, lust is," etc.

2) Some are working to refine the doctrine: "A pre-trib rapture isn't scriptural; the eternal torment and punishment of resurrected sinners isn't scriptural; the sinners prayer as a means to salvation isn't scriptural."

3) Some are working to change the "religious vocabulary" and methods of outreach in order to be relevant to the post-Christian cultures: "Unsaved people aren't lost, they're 'missing.'"

4) Some are bringing back older forms of worship long abandoned by Protestants: Disciplines such as solitude and meditation, icons, liturgies, prayer beads and incense, etc.

5) Some are attempting to change or reform the ecclesiastical structure of the church: Home Fellowships and spiritual families rather than congregational worship and church membership

Some of these practices I approve of; others, I do not. I hope this helped a little!

[Guest]

I went to Barnes and Noble last night to look up some things about Gnosticism relating to the discussion "Women in Leadership." While I was looking through one book I came across a chapter on distinguishing gnosticism from post-modernism (because, according to the author, they look alike in a lot of ways). Now from what I understand, the "post-modern church" is different than "post-modernism," they are just trying to be relevant to a post modern culture. But the similarities in the book between the way Gnostics think and what I've heard from the post-modern church seem somewhat close in a lot of ways (especially in the experiencial truth realm).

It concerns me that it seems so close in some areas. Any thoughts?

[Guest]

This post may give you a better understanding of what most people in the emerging church movement mean when they use the term "Postmodern Church."

Ten Distinctives of Postmodern Churches
http://blindbeggar.org/?p=178

[Guest]

Michelle said:

The only things lacking are communion and bible study. Where oh where could I find all of that in one place? Not at the church where I have been attending for the past 15 years. They had communion and worship, but not the fellowship.

What's to stop you guys from having a bible study? Maybe you could share a meal, have communion (during, before or after), pray, and have a bible study. That's what my church basically is. Oh, we also sing songs/hymns. We meet in a house. But I don't think we are post modern. I'll read BlindBeggar's blog and find out!

God bless,
Derek

[Guest]

here's a recent article on the emerging church controversy in Missouri:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument

[Guest]

My husband would like to attend a bible study where people study "the bible"...It seems wherever we turn the studies are with another book.
Why can't we study the bible and be mature enough to disagree
lovingly and remember, " faith, hope and love these three the greatest
is love."

The church we have attended has no prayer for the sick OR a salvation message at anytime for a new believer...It's definitely very ritualistic
and sure to get out in time.