Contentment

[Guest]

Steve wrote:

I would clarify that, in asking what kind of car should I drive, I am not suggesting that God has a specific car that I must purchase in order to be within His will. However, since Paul says, "Whatever you do, whether you eat or drink, do all to the glory of God," it seems clear that choices in the details of life can either glorify God or not.

With reference to specifics, I see God's will as providing some latitude within certain parameters, but those parameters include His concern that we make choices that glorify Him in all areas of life.

Steve, I agree completely.

TK wrote:

i dont disagree with a thing you said; if it appears that I was suggesting otherwise then I am an exceedingly poor communicator. i was trying to make the point that God DOES NOT micromanage our lives.

TK, you communicate very well. It was the whole discussion that I was referring to.

Rovenberg wrote:

I don't know Homer, what do you think about what Steve said?

See comment to Steve above.

And Rovenberg wrote:

OK... so if you didn't get the job that you wanted, does that mean it's God's will you didn't get it? Now let assume, the only reason you didn't get it is because that wasn't God's will for your life. Would you be suggesting that God is micro-managing your life.

First question: perhaps. Second question: no. God might have been neutral regarding the job, He might have seen it as not in the best interest of His kingdom, or not in my best interest.

Our broither Paidion has written that He feels God rarely intervenes in the workings of His creation (i.e. miraculously). I am in substantial agreement with him. Out of all the events involving gravity, what percentage of the time does God intervene? How often does electricity not work? (Computers and the internet excepted ) I think you see my point. However, I believe God is involved completely in our lives through providence. We may act in freedom, nature may act bupon us, but God always has a veto over whatever may happen.

Homer, what would be the proper response, keeping in mind the original topic of being content?

I can think of a couple examples of far more signifance than not getting a desired job or promotion.

One of our granddaughters almost died when she was 14. She was so close to death she was classified as "critical unstable" and assigned a private nurse around the clock. Thank God she is alive and healthy now. Our son and daughter-in-law are both Christians. Their attitude through this astonished and pleased me, and was pleasing to God, I am sure. Certainly they were greatly concerned, yet their attitude was one of thankfulness to God that He had given her to them for fourteen years.

A person who was my supervisor at the time was a Catholic. His teen aged son died in a mountain climbing accident. When I expressed my condolences to him, he also had the same attitude: with tearful eyes he expressed thankfulness that God had given him his son for eighteen years.

In both these cases I think we see the contentment we are suppposed to have. This does not mean we are not going to feel dissapointment or sorrow over things that come our way. Jesus certainly did. But I have seen people react with anger toward God over their misfortune, which makes no sense to me, if you believe there is a God.

Being discontented over our situation may not be wrong if it is used positively to improve the situation. We also should consider that what seems to be misfortune, or not the best situation for us, may be for our own good. God has been very good to me. It almost seems as though I am overdoing it if I ask Him for anything. Yet I can look back now and say I am very glad I didn't get some of the jobs I applied for, or do some of the things I wanted to do.

[Guest]

This is great, this conversation has turned into encouragement. Sharing of the Lord goodness.

Well, I'm not quite sure that God doesn't actively involve Himself in our lives. I haven't read Paidion view yet, but I'd like to.

I can only speak for what I have experienced. All I can say about it is, it's been God's grace and His mercy.

I'm sure most of us have some sort of experience, be a job or whatever, where we just about kicked and screamed to get out. I have to humbly say I have had several of those times. What has happened in those situations over time is, time passes, almost as if the Lord allows me to run out of gas. I get up, look around and realize He saw the bigger picture. By His mercy and grace, I feel He's gracious enough to give me a small glimpse.

When Paul says, "I've learned to be content" I wander if he didn't have that same experience. You know when writes Phil., he comments on how his imprisonment actually turned out for the furtherance of the gospel.

I'm starting to wonder if contentment = trust. Prov. 3:5-6

[Guest]

I'm starting to wonder if contentment = trust. Prov. 3:5-6

I think so.

[Guest]

rvornberg,

You wrote:

Well, I'm not quite sure that God doesn't actively involve Himself in our lives. I haven't read Paidion view yet, but I'd like to.

I am not sure what you mean by "actively involved". I believe God is always involved in our lives. He is perfectly capable of bringing about His desired result through providential means without overturning or interfering with the laws of nature. For example, a good father may continually oversee his children at play and only directly intervene when he feels necessary. Otherwise, he may let them play as they wish within the bounds he has set for them. Even while allowing them to follow their wishes, the father is, in a sense, continually involved in his children's actions by keeping his eye on them; he is actively caring for them, and may intervene at any time he feels appropriate.

[Guest]

I am not sure what you mean by "actively involved".

I mean:

I believe God is always involved in our lives. He is perfectly capable of bringing about His desired result through providential means without overturning or interfering with the laws of nature. For example, a good father may continually oversee his children at play and only directly intervene when he feels necessary. Otherwise, he may let them play as they wish within the bounds he has set for them. Even while allowing them to follow their wishes, the father is, in a sense, continually involved in his children's actions by keeping his eye on them; he is actively caring for them, and may intervene at any time he feels appropriate.

I like what you say here Homer.

To express what I have experienced is difficult. Does God care about the minor (or what we consider minor) details? I think He knows what we need before we ask. Therefore, for people like me, who don't have the financial freedom to choose any car I desire, I'm in need of the Lord to help me, and He has.

But... I've seen it the other way around (or at least that's how it appeared to my natural eyes). I've seen people that, without much thought or struggle, wondering what the will of God may be, act rather freely, stepping where they wish.

How that all works I don't know. Placing some sort of label on it would do damage to expressing His character. Because then you have to put Him on one side of the fence or the other. At this point, I'm just not sure I see it that way.

Make sense?

I'll give you one example of something. Typically, I feel I have the freedom to go to McDonalds or Burger King. My choice.

Well one day several years back. (I've had lots of these little things happen, that's why I said, it was difficult to express what I have experienced). I when to lunch, I couldn't decide what I wanted mexican or pizza. They where right next to each other. I literally struggle over the choice for about five minutes. (What a blessing to have that struggle huh?). Anyway, I ended up going to have pizza. I ordered my pizza and sat down. As I was waiting, I notice a nicely dress man reading a bible. I assumed he was a pastor. I got his attention, because I wanted to talk with him. I asked him, "what are you reading?" He said, "the bible." I told him I knew what he was reading and said "what book." He sort of laughed and said, "the bible." I then just said, "which book in the bible." His response to me was: "I don't know, I'm just trying to find out if this book is true."

You can imagine my reaction. I wanted to jump out of my skin knowing the Lord had place me there for him.

Hopefully, you know where I'm going with this. Bottom line, again I've seen it work both ways.

But, I think that's what you where saying also.

[Guest]

Just to make a very brief statement of my view.

1. Jesus said that He and his Father would make their dwelling with his disciples.

2. We disciples pray and look to God and listen for his voice in the decisions we make. The Father and the Son within us, continuously do their work in us, so that often the decisions we seem to make, are the decisions, and therefore the will, of God working within us.

3. God doesn't frequently intervene in nature or in outward circumstances to orchestrate events, but sometimes does --- as is recorded in scripture.

4. When God's children suffer terrible pain from cancer, or suffer grievous sorrow from the loss of a loved one, or from an atrocity that a loved one suffered, it is not that God doesn't care. He cares even more deeply than we. It is not that He "allowed" the horrible event to occur. Yet He did nothing sovereignly to prevent it. Actually, He may have taken action within the hearts and minds of people so that it would be prevented, but the people may not have responded appropriately to God's inner leading.

5. God's direct miraculous intervention in many or most cases may not be feasible in light of man's free will and/or the necessity of maintaining the stability of this complex Universe.

6. So:

There is great gain in piety with contentment. I Timothy 6:6

But what does "contentment" imply? Strangely enough the Greek word literally means "self-sufficiency". Christians don't like the idea of being self-sufficient, since it seems to imply that we don't need God. We think we are capable in ourselves to do what is necessary. But that is not, of course, what Paul was getting at when using the word. I believe he meant that even if we are suffering, we need to be in a state of mind that we do not demand that God intervene. We feel that the state of affairs wherein we find ourselves, if we can do nothing about it, is sufficient. God said to Paul, when He would not relieve Paul of his "thorn in the flesh", "My grace is sufficient for you."

So to be "self-sufficient" in this sense is to have the attitude that we don't require anything more. So "contentment" is a pretty good translation after all. Nevertheless, that does not mean that we passively accept everything which comes our way. God has given us free wills. We may use them to improve our lot.

[Guest]

Good one to keep in mind: Prov. 16:9