Christians and the Covid Vaccine

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dwight92070
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:55 am

Homer, you are greatly deceived. Because of the vaccine mandate, Americans are losing their jobs, can't pay their bills, more innocent people are dying because there are huge cuts in the police force and in health care workers. Just as Biden left thousands of innocent Americans and Afghans stranded in Afghanistan to be tortured and killed, so he has caused the death of multiplied thousands of Americans in this country, by not allowing health care workers to use Hydroxychoroquine and Ivermection to cure the Covid that they encounter every day.

Going by the VERY article THAT YOU JUST POSTED, civil disobedience IS CALLED FOR HERE, BECAUSE TO ALLOW ALL THESE PEOPLE TO DIE, IS TO BE AN ACCOMPLICE TO MURDER. THIS IS THE TIME WHEN WE NEED TO OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN. BUT YOU POSTED AND READ THAT ARTICLE, BUT IT APPEARS THAT YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND IT YOURSELF, because your conclusion to fully obey vaccine mandates is dangerously ignorant, and does not agree with that article at all.

If that ignorance is not bad enough, you rub salt in the wound by accusing any Christian who is against the vaccine, of not being a follower of Christ.

You are not following Christ by giving aid to evil men and abandoning innocent men, women, and children, to agonizing suffering and death.

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Homer
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by Homer » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:30 am

Would someone, anyone, please explain to me what benefit is gained by those in government, many of them Christians, who support, promote, etc. the Covid-19 vaccine. Who gains from this giant conspiracy?

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:33 am

Homer wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:12 am
If anything will, this article should give pause to any antivaxxer who claims to be a follower of Christ:

https://www.proclaimanddefend.org/2020/ ... overnment/

I am in complete agreement with what he has to say; and he says it much better than I could. I was making notes preparing to post on Romans13 when I ran across the article. He saved me a lot of time.

Philippians 2:3-4
New American Standard Bible 1995
3. Do nothing a from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4. do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.
Steve has spoken eloquently on this, but I'm wondering just as an obvious example what you would do if the government asked you to take a "mark" in order to buy and sell. There is no explicit biblical teaching against doing so. Do you acknowledge that there is any limit on the "realm" of authority that a government can be said to be granted by God? In other words, is there anything short of requiring a Christian to do something explicitly against a specifically enumerated moral obligation required by God that would result in a government being effectively "outside" its authority approved and empowered by God and, therefore, to be opposed or rejected by man?

If a government issues an edict that all Christians are to show up at a warehouse known to be a gas chamber to submit to their certain death merely for being Christians, are they to peaceably submit to this? Was the founding of our nation in revolt against King George's abuses against the will of God? If so, then how does it have authority as a rightful government under God?

Many extreme examples could be given but are useful to explore the unqualified position of that author.

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:40 am

Homer wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:30 am
Would someone, anyone, please explain to me what benefit is gained by those in government, many of them Christians, who support, promote, etc. the Covid-19 vaccine. Who gains from this giant conspiracy?
Many of them are no doubt motivated by greed and corruption as the pharmaceutical industry controls much of our government and media. Same can be said of relationships with China, the WHO, etc.

Some, I think, are being manipulated by those who put them in power and who likely have something "on them" - (see above and Epstein and the like)

Others I question their Christian motivations, but some are no doubt simply misled or conflicted by political aspirations or other.

Others, I truly believe, are being controlled by a demonic spirit of the age.

Others, I fear, are trying to cover up for illegal/unethical biological research and things have gotten out of hand.

For others, it's a pure power and control issue.

For others, I truly believe they want to depopulate earth in a malthusian/demonic strike against God's creation.

Others seek to level America's hegemony in the world in furtherance of a global vision of the world.

And many other shades of gray.

I think it's really a perfect storm of power and corruption, greed and demonic forces.

In short, I fear we may be seeing "the Beast" rising to its historic heights.

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:27 pm

Homer wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:12 am
Philippians 2:3-4
New American Standard Bible 1995
3. Do nothing a from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4. do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.
This is worth a separate response - do not assume that those who object to these mandates and other government action are doing so out of selfishness or empty conceit. If I believe it to be against the interest of our nation and truly believe it to be worse for our country and humanity, then opposing it would be an act of love and holy service. And I could also be maintaining a position even of personal welfare out of a humility of mind without conceit. Those trying to force me or others to do something against our personal conscience or belief of what is best and most loving for our society might do well to study this very same scripture.

If I believe (as I do) the past 2 years of lockdowns and social control and masking and vaccination has harmed more people than it helped and is continuing to do so (witness at the very least the crazy high teen suicide rates) then perhaps I am taking the most loving approach for more people by opposing it as I have and trying the best I can to remain informed of the real science and recognize the real deception (at least as I see it) and avoid being caught up in the mass hysteria and propaganda that comprises 99% of the media (conventional and social) reactions.

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steve
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by steve » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:36 pm

I appreciate the comments of Dan (Backwoodsman), Darin and of Dwight on this topic. I have not had time to participate in the discussion, but I agree with the positions they have posted. I am actually surprised at the position Homer is defending. Homer, it doesn't seem like you to support tyranny, or to fail to recognize it when it is unmasked before our faces.

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:24 pm

With respect to your last article you shared -- I would also ask, Homer, what "authority" you might be suggesting we are not submitting ourselves to. It just struck me this evening that the government hasn't issued a mandate affecting most of us yet. These mandates are largely corporate, and I'm objecting to them in principle, not refusing to follow my employer's mandate. My own employer is still working that out - if they do it, I'll be faced with a decision and if (within their rules) I cannot comply, I have the choice to leave their employment. But, that DOES NOT mean I can not and should not speak out against the principle of such mandates, as a matter of social policy as it may pertain to other employers who are NOT an authority over me.

But, also, some states (such as Texas) have laws against vaccine mandates. They are an authority. If a company ignores that authority and issues a corporate mandate, what is an employee to do under your scheme? If the federal government issues a private mandate, then it conflicts with the state authority. What do you do then?

And we live in a Constitutional Republic. If the federal government lacks the constitutional authority to issue a private mandate, then do you have to obey it as a Christian moral obligation? (there is no general federal police power -- the states "could" but not the feds and even less so an executive order from the President without clear legislative intent).

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:43 am

Another good interview with Dr. Peter McCullough.
https://rumble.com/vnyqff-dr.-mcculloug ... -show.html

Homer asked "why" some of the individuals were doing this. As I mentioned, I think the answers are "mani-fold" but I sent the following to a friend of mine a while back and thought it was worth posting here... Some of the "leading figures" like Bill Gates and Fauci and others I believe are driven at least in part by this motivation (as well as greed) as part of the global elite and Klaus Schwabb/Davos/WEF's "Build Back Better" movement (parroted by our President).

Since we're talking specifically about vaccines here, I only allude to Jonas Salk in the below. As he is the "founding father" of vaccines, it is worth looking into his book "Survival of the Wisest." He had a pretty sick view of humanity and saw vaccines as a way to control a population and decide who lives and dies. This is one of many books written by "global elites" over the years which very openly discuss their views of the world and how people are the problem and need to be limited, eliminated or controlled by the few "wise priestly class" (them) - this satanic atheistic attitude is rampant even in today's Ivy League and is behind much of what we see even in decisions to go to war and control nation-states in other parts of the world and so forth.
Bertrand Russell wrote an important book “The Impact of Science on Technology” in the 50s. He is one of the most influential philosophers in the cabal of folks in his time like HG Wells and Aldous Huxley and Jonas Salk (and more recently people like Bill Gates) who believed we should be come a society like that described in Plato’s Republic and that we should be led by a “Priestly King” class (people like them) ruling over the machine of society.

These people are really sick and have been and still are running our major universities and think tanks (and run the “consultant class”).

Here are a few well known excerpts from that book… the book (among others by these freaks) are full of this hopeful slop, seeking to reduce population and control the world. If they weren’t so dangerous and influential in the upper echelons of Rhodes scholars and elites at Yale and Harvard and Oxford and the Rand Corporation and the like, they would be a laughable caricature of Bond villains. But this is exactly the sort of thing coming out of World Economic Forum today (Davos) – and being openly spoken of by their founder, Klaus Schwabb and the Great Reset.

Bertrand Russell wrote:It is to be expected that advances in physiology and psychology will give governments much more control over individual mentality than they now have even in totalitarian countries. Fichte laid it down that education should aim at destroying free will, so that, after pupils have left school, they shall be incapable, throughout the rest of their lives, of thinking or acting otherwise than as their schoolmasters would have wished. But in his day this was an unattainable ideal: what he regarded as the best system in existence produced Karl Marx. In future such failures are not likely to occur where there is dictatorship. Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. Even if all are miserable, all will believe themselves happy, because the government will tell them that they are so.

***

I think the subject which will be of most importance polit­ically is mass psychology. Mass psychology is, scientifically speaking, not a very advanced study, and so far its professors have not been in universities: they have been advertisers, politicians, and, above all, dictators. This study is immensely useful to practical men, whether they wish to become rich or to acquire the government. It is, of course, as a science, founded upon individual psychology, but hitherto it has employed rule-of-thumb methods which were based upon a kind of intuitive common sense. Its importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda. Of these the most influential is what is called "education." Religion plays a part, though a diminishing one; the press, the cinema, and the radio play an increasing part. What is essential in mass psychology is the art of per­suasion. If you compare a speech of Hitler's with a speech of (say) Edmund Burke, you will see what strides have been made in the art since the eighteenth century. What went wrong formerly was that people had read in books that man is a rational animal, and framed their arguments on this hypothesis. We now know that limelight and a brass band do more to persuade than can be done by the most elegant train of syllogisms. It may be hoped that in time anybody will be able to persuade anybody of anything if he can catch the patient young and is provided by the State with money and equipment.

This subject will make great strides when it is taken up by scientists under a scientific dictatorship. Anaxagoras maintained that snow is black, but no one believed him. The social psychologists of the future will have a number of classes of school children on whom they will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that snow is black. Various results will soon be arrived at. First, that the influence of home is obstructive. Second, that not much can be done unless indoctrination begins before the age of ten. Third, that verses set to music and repeatedly intoned are very effective. Fourth, that the opinion that snow is white must be held to show a morbid taste for eccentricity. But I anticipate. It is for future scientists to make these maxims precise and discover exactly how much it costs per head to make children believe that snow is black, and how much less it would cost to make them believe it is dark gray. Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for a generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen. As yet there is only one country which has succeeded in creating this politician's paradise.

***

The nations which at present increase rapidly should be encouraged to adopt the methods by which, in the West, the increase of population has been checked. Educational propaganda, with government help, could achieve this result in a generation. There are, however, two powerful forces opposed to such a policy: one is religion, the other is nationalism. I think it is the duty of all who are capable of facing facts to realize, and to proclaim, that opposition to the spread of birth con­trol, if successful, must inflict upon mankind the most ap­palling depth of misery and degradation, and that within another fifty years or so.

I do not pretend that birth control is the only way in which population can be kept from increasing. There are others, which, one must suppose, opponents of birth control would prefer. War, as I remarked a moment ago, has hitherto been disappointing in this respect, but perhaps bacteriological war may prove more effective. If a Black Death could be spread throughout the world once in every generation survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full. There would be nothing in this to offend the consciences of the devout or to restrain the ambitions of national­ists. The state of affairs might be somewhat unpleasant, but what of that? Really high-minded people are indifferent to happiness, especially other people's.

***

Any nation which adopts this practice will, within a generation, secure great military advantages. The system, one may surmise, will be something like this: except possibly in the governing aristocracy, all but 5 per cent of males and 30 per cent of females will be sterilized. The 30 per cent of females will be expected to spend the years from eighteen to forty in reproduction, in order to secure adequate cannon fodder. As a rule, artificial insemination will be preferred to the natural method. The unsterilized, if they desire the pleasures of love, will usually have to seek them with sterilized partners.
I don't think you really want to be on that side of the equation.

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:48 am

And this...

https://www.americanthinker.com/article ... _week.html

The Unvaccinated Are Looking Smarter Every Week

There is a massive propaganda push against those choosing not to vaccinate against COVID-19 with the experimental mRNA vaccines. Mainstream media, the big tech corporations, and our government have combined efforts to reward compliance and to shame and marginalize non-compliance. Their mantra says that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Persons who choose not to vaccinate are characterized as unintelligent, selfish, paranoid people who don’t read much and live in a trailer park in Florida (or Alabama, or Texas, or name your state). Never has there been such an effort to cajole, manipulate through fear, and penalize people to take an experimental medical treatment.

However, as time has passed with this pandemic and more data accumulates about the virus and the vaccine, the unvaccinated are looking smarter and smarter with each passing week. It has been shown now that the vaccinated equally catch and spread the virus. Vaccine side effect data continues to accumulate that make the risk of taking the vaccine prohibitive as the pandemic wanes. Oral and IV medications (flccc.net) that work early in the treatment of COVID-19 are much more attractive to take now as the vaccine risks are becoming known, especially because the vaccinated will need endless boosters every six months.

First, let’s address the intelligence of the unvaccinated. Vaccine hesitancy is multi-factorial and has little to do with level of education or intelligence. Carnegie Mellon University did a study assessing vaccine hesitancy across educational levels. According to the study, what’s the educational level with the most vaccine hesitancy? Ph.D. level! Those can't all have been awarded to liberal arts majors. Clearly, scientists who can read the data and assess risk are among the least likely to take the mRNA vaccines.

The claim that there’s a pandemic of the unvaccinated is, therefore, patently untrue. As a retired nurse from California recently asked, “Why do the protected need to be protected from the unprotected by forcing the unprotected to use the protection that did not protect the protected in the first place?” If the vaccine works to prevent infection, then the vaccinated have nothing to worry about. If the vaccine does not prevent infection, then the vaccinated remain at some risk, and the unvaccinated would be less likely to choose a vaccine that does not work well.

The mRNA vaccine efficacy is very narrow and focused on the original alpha strain of COVID-19. By targeting one antigen group on the spike protein, it does help for the original alpha strain, but it is clear now it does not protect against Delta strain and is likely not protective against any future strains that might circulate. It also appears that the efficacy wanes in 4-6 months, leading to discussions about boosters.

Top Articles Why I’m Betting Biden Goes the 4-Year Distance Read More Decoding the Proposed New Invasive IRS $600 Bank Reporting Rule No to a Palestinian Consulate Fake Victims in the Autumn of a Ruling Class There Has Been No Mandatory Vaccination Executive Order Why I’m Betting Biden Goes the4‑Year Distance Why I’m Betting Biden Goes the 4-Year Distance
Several authors have pointed out that vaccinating with a “leaky” vaccine during a pandemic is driving the virus to escape by creating variants. If the booster is just another iteration of the same vaccine, it likely won’t help against the new strain but will, instead, produce evolutionary pressure on the virus to produce even more variants and expose us to more side effects. Why, then, is this booster strategy for everyone being pursued?

This vast Phase 3 clinical trial of mRNA vaccines in which Americans are participating mostly out of fear is not going well. It is abundantly clear for anyone advocating for public health that the vaccination program should be stopped. Iceland has just stopped giving the Moderna vaccine to anyone which is a good step in the right direction. Sweden, Denmark, and Finland have banned the Moderna vaccine for anyone under the age of 30.

VAERS, our vaccine adverse effect reporting system, showed at the beginning of this week 16,000 deaths, 23,000 disabilities, 10,000 MI/myocarditis, 87,000 urgent care visits, 75,000 hospital stays, and 775,000 total adverse events. The VAERS system is widely known to under-report events, with an estimated 90 to 99% of events going unreported there.

Eudravigilance, the European reporting system now associates 26,000 deaths in close proximity to administration of the vaccine. Whistleblower data from the CMS system (Medicare charts) showed close to 50,000 deaths in the Medicare group shortly after the vaccine.

An AI-powered tracking program called Project Salus also follows the Medicare population and shows vaccinated Medicare recipients are having worse outcomes week by week of the type consistent with Antibody Dependent Enhancement. This occurs when the vaccine antibodies actually accelerate the infection leading to worsening COVID-19 infection outcomes. Antibody Dependent Enhancement has occurred previously with trials of other coronavirus vaccines in animals. The CDC and the FDA are suppressing this data and no one who receives the vaccine has true informed consent.

The Rome declaration has 6,700 medical signatories attesting that the handling of the pandemic amounts to crimes against humanity for denying the best medical treatment and continuing to advocate for harmful vaccines. The evidence is right in front of Americans to end the propaganda and mass mask psychosis.

The media narrative of perpetual fear is falling apart. Norway, Sweden, and Denmark have ended all COVID restrictions and are doing much better than the US, UK, and Israel, three countries that continue to vaccinate into the pandemic. Mexico, Guatemala, Indonesia, almost all of Africa, and parts of India have low vaccination rates and are doing much better than the US, something attributed to their managing the pandemic by using Ivermectin.

Over 500,000 people attended the Sturgis motorcycle rally in August and there was no super spread of COVID-19. Football season started in August and stadiums around the country are packed with 80,000 fans yelling and screaming with no masks. There have been no superspreader events, yet the students are forced to go back to masking in class. This makes no sense.

If the vaccine is so important why do our government leaders and illegal aliens not have to take it? Currently, 13 states that are Democratic with high vaccination rates have the highest “case” rates (using a faulty PCR test), while Republican states are all doing better. How does this happen?

It should be clear that the government has manipulated COVID to create perpetual fear, so we’ll hand it our liberty. In this giant battle between our government and the unvaccinated, I hope enough people will refuse to comply so that we can unite to stop this madness.

I know this decision is very difficult for many people when it comes to losing their job. To the vaccinated, please don’t take any boosters for you’ll just be perpetuating the risk of side effects and new variants.

If we allow the government to decide this medical decision for us, it is a short step for the government to say it can decide other medical decisions for you, e.g., all persons over 75 never be resuscitated; people may have only three children (or two or one) with mandatory sterilization for women; or refusing the government’s demands will see you denied health care.

Is this the totalitarian state you want to live in? If you are proudly vaccinated now and on the government side, what about the next government mandate, when you’re on the other side, coerced into a decision you don’t want, how will you feel then?

It is obvious that the government (with the Fauci subset), the media, and big tech, are trying to divide us and take away the freedoms we have enjoyed as Americans. I am praying that all who call themselves Americans can unite to end this medical tyranny and regain a free America before it is too late. Peacefully resist and do not comply.

Image: Vaccine by Daniel Schludi. Unsplash license.

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:02 pm

If you're wondering why "some" in the government are motivated to maintain a fear-driven government reliance, you might find this 3-part Adam Curtis BBC documentary interesting. It was made during the Bush-era in light of the war in Iraq and our 9-11 response, etc. But, it helps explain an important part of government motivation for these sorts of public deceptions, especially from what has been called "neo-con" circles. But, this philosophy goes back much further and extends well beyond party politics. In recent decades, it arose primarily through the influence of a political philosopher Richard Strauss and his pupils/adherents/disciples such as Paul Wolfowitz, Irving Kristol, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Bill & Hillary Clinton, and far too many others to mention. Some of their acolytes still in charge at our Department of State and have served on both sides of the aisle, and many of them have been behind the effort to bring down Trump. But, it goes back to Plato and Aristotle (and probably before that).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares

Video segments can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... nightmares

If those disappear, you might check archive.org

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