Insurance - is it good stewardship or lack of trust in God?

Post by **_roblaine** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:18 pm

Before I give my opinion I will tell you that I am a Insurance Broker (Employee Health Benefits).

2 months ago I was in a accident (Wake Boarding) and broke my femar (SP?). I was transported by ambulanc,e treated in ER, admitted in the hospital, had surgery, and was discharged after three days. the Hospital bill totaled over $30,000.00 and that is befor the cost of the surgen. I have had medications, durable medical equipment, and all together the charges will esily go over $50.000.00. I thanked God that I had insurance. My out of pocket was less than $1,500.00. If I had no insurance I would likley have had to sell almost all I had and much if not all charitable giveing would have stopped for the time being. As one who works in the insurance business I understand the expence and the burden it put on families. I have also seen Isurance save families from certin finacial ruin. And no I am not trying to sell any policies here.

Robin

Post by **_Sean** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:39 am

Seems like the local church that someone belongs to should pick up the expense in some cases. I know that may not normally happen but if you are involved in an accident and the medical care is given when you don't have insurance (and maybe aren't even able to deicde if you want care or not) then it seems that the church should pay the expense if it would otherwise mean losing everything.

Kind of makes you wonder what the point of having your life saved is if they would just bankrupt you afterwards and take everything you have.

Personally, I have health and life insurance. It's provided by my employer. While I'm blessed to have it I certainly know what comes to mind when one of my children wake up with a 102' degree fever, "Gotta call the doctor and get them in". It can certainly be testing to your faith. Especially if the doctors don't have answers. I then usually think of how many thousands of years man has made it without todays expensive modern health care system.

I would affirm that where your heart is in the matter is what's important. It matters what your faith is in.

Post by **_Derek** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:14 am

Hi all,

My wife and I were thinking and praying about this for a while. After seeking counsel from many people, we decided to join Samaritan Ministries.

It's a ministry where Christians share each others medical needs. They have a newsletter that goes out to all the families/people that have joined up, and they assign your need to enough families to help share the cost. We write a check to a Christian family with a medical need every month. It's nice, to not pay into a business when you generally don't even need help. You send your share directly to a family.

You try your best to get discounts, (most doctors have one for uninsured folks), pay your bill, and other Christians share the burden (w/money and prayers).

My wife had her gallbladder taken out and the bill was $10,000+ but we were able to pay it with their help. We got a lot of nice cards and people were praying. We really love it.

We currently don't have any other kind of insurance (aside from what is legally required) or serious savings plan. I would also say that it is a matter of conscience.

Here is the website for Samaritan Ministries if anyone wants to learn more about it.

Post by **_AARONDISNEY** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:54 am

Seems to me it's kind of like the guy that had heard a flood was coming and was 'trusting' God to save his life. A dude in a Jeep drives up and says "Get in!! We're headed out of town. A big flood's a-comin'!! " ...."Yeah, well, you just go on, son! My God's gonna save me!"
a few minutes later as the flood waters are shoulder deep and he's hanging onto a tree branch in his front yard a boat comes by "Get in, we're headed out of the flood waters!" - "No thanks! God's gonna save me" then after a couple of hours the man is on his roof and a helicopter comes along and with a loud voice through a speaker "We're gonna let down the ladder and you climb up to safety, sir!" - "No way!! It may look bad but God's gonna save me!"
then after the man died from drowning in the flood waters. Face to face to God he says "It's so wonderful to be here and to be in the presence of my Lord but why did you not save me when I put my trust in you in the flood?"
To which God replies.."I sent you a Jeep, a boat and a helicopter. What else did you want me to do?!?!!?"

God has blessed us with insurance. It is a helpful blessing when we need a lot of money for unexpected situations.

If someone wishes to not have insurance, I suppose that is just fine, but tribulation comes on us all, and I'm thankful I had insurance when my apartment caught fire 4 years ago and burned up all I had. I'm sure glad I had health insurance 10 years ago when I flipped my Ford Ranger and ruptured my kidney. That insurance was a God given route out of a very tough situation.

Just as when I'm sick. I turn to the Lord in prayer first. Then I go to the doctor. It isn't a lack of faith in God. It is utilizing the good things and specializations that he has made available to us.

Post by **_TK** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:46 am

i appreciate all of your responses. like robin, i work in the insurance field (claims) so i may have something of a jaded view because i see what could happen to someone who doesnt have any or enough insurance.

I think the idea of approaching church members would be very nice, but very few would be sympathetic to a person who voluntarily doesnt carry insurance (and as a result comes to the church to bail them out). and because of the amt of the bills (as noted by robin in his post) most churches or their members dont have that much money lying around either.

i rarely go to the dr and neither does my family unless really necessary. so obviously the high cost of insurance is a "bad deal." unless, of course, you have the misfortune of getting hit with a huge hospital bill.

again, i appreciate all the input on this issue and the gracious spirit shown by all.

TK

Post by **_Derek** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:41 pm

God has blessed us with insurance. It is a helpful blessing when we need a lot of money for unexpected situations

.

Do you feel that insurance is God's main provision for us for health needs, just as the helicopter etc. in you analogy?

Post by **_Derek** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:43 pm

I think the idea of approaching church members would be very nice, but very few would be sympathetic to a person who voluntarily doesnt carry insurance (and as a result comes to the church to bail them out). and because of the amt of the bills (as noted by robin in his post) most churches or their members dont have that much money lying around either.

Hi TK,

This is why my wife and I do Samaritans (see earlier post), because, no one in it carries insurance so everyone is sympathetic toward one another and has agreed to help out.

Post by **_Steve** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:09 pm

I am all for the Samaritans idea. It follows biblical principles on every point I can think of:

1) It avoids being unequally yoked with unbelievers in a mutual-care arrangement;

2) No money is wasted by paying premiums that are disbursed by a secular organization, but your "premiums" are actually paid to brethren in need;

3) It allows your needs to be covered by the body of Christ without anyone feeling that you have deliberately neglected your responsibility to care for your family;

4) It does not conflict with trusting in God, since the body of Christ is the extension of God, and His apointed means of provision for needs within the household of faith.

I have heard only good things about this kind of Christian medical co-op.

Also, I certainly can't see anything to criticize in a Christian having conventional insurance when it is automatically provided in a benefits package that comes with their employment. That can be God's "helicopter" for them.

The questions arise when one has no default insurance coverage and is considering how to think and what to do about future uncertainties. One reason I said what I did about considering life insurance is that death is not one of the "uncertainties" of life. Unless the rapture comes in our lifetimes, death is definitely on the agenda.

To save something to give to your heirs, whether in the form of an insurance settlement or other things of value, may be very legitimate—though I am not one of those who think it to be a moral obligation to leave an estate. The apostles, who forsook all that they had to follow Jesus, probably left little to their children, other than a wonderful example of trusting God and a proof of His faithfulness in provision. Thus far, this is just about all that I can leave to my children, if I were to die today. It is enough.

My parents are not yet dead, but if they died and left me nothing but their godly examples, I would have no complaints at all. In fact, inheriting easy wealth from parents (like winning the lottery) has destroyed many a soul. Jesus said that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God (Mark 10:25). Those who "seek first the kingdom of God" (Matt.6:33) themselves should hope that their children will do the same, and will not wish to saddle their children with such things as Jesus identified as impediments. It is interesting that Mark tells us that Jesus "loved" the rich, young ruler, and then told him to sell everything and give it to the poor (Mark 10:21)! Is this the way we "love" our children?

At the same time, with the economic realities of the modern world, and especially the inaccessibility of affordable housing in California, where most of my children live, I wouldn't mind giving them a little foot-up in the financial department. While I would much prefer that they would choose on their own a life of simplicity and service, I don't wish for them to be consigned to a life of poverty against their choice (there is no virtue I know of in that). I am attempting to assist them financially as much as possible while I live, but it is possible that it would be only after my death (if I had life insurance) that I could actually give them a significant boost.

I have no reason to insure my home against fire, etc., since I have proven that I can live a fulfilling and fruitful life with no more possessions than would fit in a backpack. If, while trusting God in all things, my goods were lost in a fire or to a thief, then my thoughts would be:

1) this is the risk that Jesus warned about in laying up treasures on earth (Matt.6:19)—why should I complain?

2) I am instructed in scripture to be content, even having only "food and raiment" (1 Tim.6:8). Therefore, I shall not complain;

3) Perhaps it is God who has thus sovereignly simplified my life, and wants me to embrace a change of lifestyle (which I could thwart, if I had everything insured!); and

4) If I can't trust God for the safety of earthly possessions, and accept His handling of that charge, then how can I trust Him for the keeping of more important items, like my soul (Matt.6:25)?

As for my health, I see this whole category as one of faith and stewardship. My whole duty is to fear God and keep his commandments (Eccl.12:13). The conduct of this duty may involve me in high-risk activities (like telling outlaw bikers that they must repent). I believe that God is willing to take responsibility for the outcomes of the His servants' actions, done in obedience to Him. I am not required (nor would my sense of stewardship allow me) to engage in high-risk activities that are not commanded by God (risking life or limb for something that produces as its only fruit an adrenaline rush). If I were to act dangerously without God's direction to do so, I would have a difficult time really expecting God to protect me from consequent injuries, or to cover the costs of such when they occur.

Faith, to be total and appropriate, requires the maintenance of a clear conscience. If I were to get drunk and try to drive home, I could not really have confidence that God will preserve me from harm en route. My conscience would not provide this assurance. However, if I live every day and every moment with a concern for the will of God and maintain a clear conscience before Him (Acts 23:1/ 1 Tim.1:18-19), then I have no difficulty trusting Him for everything that is beyond my control (1 John 3:21).

I have raised five children to adulthood, and have never had or felt any need to have insurance. We have had few medical needs, during those years (the lack of which may indeed be a blessing granted because we were trusting in God for all things). We never became personally acquainted with any local physicians, even to know their names, and of course, never saw the inside of a hospital (four of my children were born at home, without physicians, and one was born in the hospital, because she came two months premature, and spent her first month in an incubator. I was dirt-poor, but God provided for me to pay all hospital bills personally). I think the only times we took our children to a doctor were the occasions when our sons were circumcized.

That does not mean that our home was free from all sickness. There were colds, flus, minor injuries, etc., but nothing that ever required attention beyond prayer and the application of simple home treatments. I am not preaching or saying this is how all Christians should live or that they will always see the same results. This is only my testimony. It explains why I cannot see any reason to consider getting health insurance.

Of course, I am not presuptuous. I am not assuming that no medical emergengies will ever arise. However, since I am trusting God, no such emergencies can possibly arise other than in the will of God. I do not fear the will of my Father, nor of my Physician. Unforeseen medical conditions may indeed result in my death. We all have to die somehow. We seldom have the choice of the means. I am willing to leave the decisions concerning the time and means to the prerogatives of "a faithful Creator" (1 Peter 4:19).

Medical crises, even when they come, do not dictate outcome. God does. If such should arise, and God does not wish for me to die, He can cure me by direct supernatural means, or else through natural means which He can make affordable to me (one of the factors in making them available—things that I cannot afford are not "available" to me, and I am not under obligation to employ them as means or see them as God's "helicopter").

The fact that I am older these days, and in a higher-risk category for a variety of potentially fatal disorders has no impact on my thinking. God does not become less faithful as we get older.

Though I do not judge those who choose a different way than mine, I should marvel if they would not wish to go this way. There is no path, that I can imagine, more free from anxiety. In looking at the lifestyles of Christian friends who have built natural and financial fortresses around their lives to avert disaster, I see nothing to envy. They seem less at peace than myself, and it costs them so much money and emotional energy to maintain their anxiety level.

They can never be truly secure. "Some trust in chariots, and some in horses..." (Ps.20:7), but those who do so must never forget that there are horses in this world that theirs can not outrun (Isa.30:16). Indeed, some, who have not put their whole trust in God have even wearied themselves contending with footmen—how then do they hope to do against horses (Jer.12:5)?

It is so good to know that there really IS a God. My heart's desire is that more Christians could really believe that this is true, and not simply hold it as an article of faith.

This is not intended to reflect negatively on any who have specifically felt led of God to pursue a course different from my own. Whenever you are obeying what you know God has instructed you to do, you will have that clearness of conscience, that freedom from anxiety, to which I refer—regardless of the specifics of that leading.

Post by **_AARONDISNEY** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:52 pm

Derek wrote:
God has blessed us with insurance. It is a helpful blessing when we need a lot of money for unexpected situations
.

Do you feel that insurance is God's main provision for us for health needs, just as the helicopter etc. in you analogy?

No I don't - I think that there are times when God will bring healing to us. But I do think it is a tool that God uses to supply us with our needs.

To say that not having health insurance is equal to trusting God completely and having insurance is equal to lacking faith in God is an awfully big stretch.

Post by **_TK** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:00 pm

steve wrote:

It is so good to know that there really IS a God. My heart's desire is that more Christians could really believe that this is true, and not simply hold it as an article of faith.

this statement cuts deeper than you may realize; i think this is a major problem in the modern church, and something that has been "passed down" in the recent generations. many of us have never really been challenged in these areas by our churches or fellow believers, which is why this forum is such a blessing.

TK