Post-Modern Church

[Guest]

Yes, Christopher, I think you are correct about the meal. In the early Church, the bread and wine of communion were taken to remember our Lord right after the Love Feast (or "the Lord's Supper"). Paul's decription of the way the Corinthian church vulgarized the Lord's Supper, by coming to it only to eat and drink, make it obvious that it was a meal.

[Guest]

Hi there,

My list would include:

senior pastors
church buildings
pews
pulpits
the weekly sermon by the same person for decades
the modern-day church service
doorknob hangers
sunday clothes
sunday school
professional christians
tracts
stadium crusades (unless Jesus and the apostles in hostile environments count. a bonus point for being nit-picky)
nationalism
church membership
worship leaders
once-a-month communion
bulletins/announcements
building dedications
youth pastors
powerpoint
pastors sitting on a stage and watching each other preach
for starters...

Practices with NT precedent that now look odd to many Christians:

churches meeting in homes (not just as a cell group)
spirit-led giving.
"kingdom among us" focus
pacifism
organic fellowship under the headship of christ
unpaid elders who work with their hands
simple living
priesthood of the believers

I'll duck for cover now . ..

JD

[Guest]

JD,

Can you explain what you mean by the following?

professional Christians
doorknob hangers


For the remainder of your list, what makes these items Biblically unecessary instead of simply cultural differences between the 1st and 21st centuries in the way the body of Christ meets?

[Guest]

Hi Schoel,

Doorknob hangers are fliers churches hang on people's doors, inviting them to church. Typically, this is done when a church launch, or some special event occurs.

Professional Christians would speak not to those teachers, elders, preachers who receive money for their ministry necessarily. I know Paul taught this was acceptable. I'm speaking toward the church culture today in our country where ministry is a career and a profession. It was said better by former U.S. Senate chaplain Richard Halverson. “Christianity began in Galilee as a fellowship of men and women centered on Jesus Christ. It went to Greece and became a philosophy. It went to Rome and became an institution. It went to Europe and became a culture. It came to America and became an enterprise."

I don't think the things in my list are necessarily good or bad. It depends on context, I suppose. I will say, many of things foster a co-dependent relationship between clergy and laity. What would churches do if they did not have a weekly service? Is the average Christian equipped and capable of ministering truth to another adult Christian? How would a senior pastor conduct his ministry if he had no audience to preach to, and no salary to receive?

Open-ended questions, I know, but I think they underscore the fraility of the church in our culture, much of which is brought on by the institutional church's structure and function.

Imagine our country under severe persecution, where the freedoms we enjoy as the church were taken away in a day. No more buildings, no more Christian concerts and conferences, no more weekly services conducted by few for the benefit of many. What would the church look like?

The answer may be a good thing. Depending on one's perspective.

I think a lot of Christians are looking at the institutional church and asking, "What makes these things Biblically necessary?"

JD

[Guest]

“Christianity began in Galilee as a fellowship of men and women centered on Jesus Christ. It went to Greece and became a philosophy. It went to Rome and became an institution. It went to Europe and became a culture. It came to America and became an enterprise."

What a great quote! Thanks JD, that's going in my files.

[Guest]

I think a lot of Christians are looking at the institutional church and asking, "What makes these things Biblically necessary?"

As am I.
However, many believers in churches today are not.

It isn't the individual practices that bother me as much as the philosophy driving them. It is the sense of building an organization or institution rather than the body of Christ that irks me. Even churches who speak out against some of the popular church growth marketing trends still have practices and methods that look to "build the ministry". Your quote from Richard Halverson hits the nail on the head for me.

And so the question presents itself (to borrow from a popular song):
Should I stay or should I go?

[Guest]

I think a lot of Christians are looking at the institutional church and asking, "What makes these things Biblically necessary?"

As am I.
However, many believers in churches today are not.

It isn't the individual practices that bother me as much as the philosophy driving them. It is the sense of building an organization or institution rather than the body of Christ that irks me. Even churches who speak out against some of the popular church growth marketing trends still have practices and methods that look to "build the ministry". Your quote from Richard Halverson hits the nail on the head for me.

And so the question presents itself (to borrow from a popular song):
Should I stay or should I go?

If you choose 'go,' where would you go?

[Guest]

And I was wondering what a person would do if they go. I mean will they be more involved in the work for the Gospel, the same, or less. To me its not about church going but what you do once your there.

[Guest]

To clarify, I wasn't asking if we should stay with Christ or leave him. The statement was aimed at a believer in a church where the items JD listed are present and whether or not to search out fellowship elsewhere.

Allyn/Michelle.
Good points. I believe that, in the Post Modern movement, many have chosen to go, but form fellowships that more authentically represent the model of the early church.
However, I believe we also have an obligation to our brothers and sisters in Christ within the other fellowships and our leaving may adversely affect them (Romans 14 - 15:7).
Also, the newly formed body may become another denomination once the fresh work of the Spirit is codified by its members.

[Guest]

Hi Schoel,

I was truly just asking, not trying to make a point about anything. I'm getting dissatisfied with the institutional church too. Here's my situation:

I work with a lot of Christians. In my opinion, we have developed into a body of believers; we pray together and for each other's burdens, we share goods and freely give to each other when needed (probably not to the extent of the early church where they sold their possessions however), and keep each other 'accountable (you should've heard the grief I got when I sorta, kinda thought about going on a date with an unbeliever.) For me that's more about being a 'body' then hanging door hangers on neighbor's front doors announcing the Easter Sunrise Service times. The only things lacking are communion and bible study. Where oh where could I find all of that in one place? Not at the church where I have been attending for the past 15 years. They had communion and worship, but not the fellowship.