Sabbath Observance: 3 Views

[Guest]

Then you wrote:

Notice that when Jesus finished his instructions on righteousness in Matthew 5, 6, and 7, he concluded with the following words:

"Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it."

You emphasized the words "mine" in Jesus' text. Jesus also said that none of the words He spoke were His own, but were the Father's Who had sent Him. The same Father also gave the words of the Law to Moses! they are the same words!

peace, dmatic

[Guest]

Paidion continued with:

Notice Jesus says the wise person is the one who obey his words, not the laws of Moses. Indeed, throughout his teaching he contrasts his words with those spoken through Moses.

As previously mentioned these words, from both Jesus' sayings and from Moses, were from the same source, namely God Himself!

also, as stated previously, Jesus never "contrasted" his words, from Moses' teachings, only with what was being taught by men.

peace, dmatic

[Guest]

Paidion wondered:

Dmatic, I was wondering also whether you practice the following instruction given through Moses:

Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard. Leviticus 19:27

Do you refrain from trimming the sides of your hair or the edges of your your beard? Now I hope your not going to say that you have cut your whole beard off and now keep your face shaved. Surely that would be much more against God's wishes!

This is an interesting question. Why were you wondering?

You have attempted to use this technique to annul the Law of God as given through Moses before, namely, trying to accuse me of sin, as if my sin would somehow validate your opinion that the Law has been done away with.

But, to frustrate you once again, I will say that my growth is similar to the one pictured in your avitar photo. Sorry. Though you have much more hair on top than I! I am not so well trimmed as you either! Nor am I as good looking!

Peace, dmatic

[Guest]

Allyn asked:

but someone said that the Law of Moses was to be taught to the Gentiles. I don't remember who said this but I would like chapter and verse from the person who said it.

It was me Allyn, and I know you don't want to talk to me, but I'll answer your question, if you don't mind.

Jesus taught us to teach everything He taught to His disciples to every nation. (matthew 28:19-20) "Go ye therefore...and teach all nations ...whatsoever I have commanded you."

One of His commands to His disciples is recorded at Matthew 23;2-3, where He said, "The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore, all that he commands you to observe and do, observe and do, but do not ye after their works, for they say and do not."

Another of His commands is recorded at Matthew 5:17-19 where He says; "Do not think that I came to annul the law or the prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill...."

though most professing Christians disobey this command by thinking that Jesus did come to do away with the law, they also teach others to think their way too, and will be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

Allyn, if you need more than these, please ask again, or else, just read the gospels. Jesus always taught his disciples to keep the Laws of God as given through Moses. There is no case where He taught otherwise.

peace, dmatic

[Guest]

This is pretty good Homer:

We have discussed many things on this forum that are of little practical value. Our relationship to the Law of Moses, IMO, is decidedly not one of them. If it is God's will that we keep the Sabbath, then it is of great importance to know this.

It is important. If sin can still be defined by transgressing God's Laws as given through Moses, it would be good to know this, and disregard His commandments no longer!

Please read James 2:8,9 for a case where this is made by the Apostle.

However, you also wrote:

Jesus came and taught as no one had ever taught before. Just as in His illustration, the wineskin of the law was burst asunder, unsuited for His teaching.

It is true that Jesus came and taught as no one had ever taught before, but your reference to the wineskin being the law of God is wrong. I'll try to talk about it later.....

Peace, dmatic

[Guest]

Hi Sean, I haven't forgotten about your other question regarding the reason for Paul's madness, but here you wrote:

So I'm still confused. You say the law is not divided into groupings. And that Jesus commanded us to keep the law of Moses. Yet Hebrews says the law has changed.

This point has been made to you already. But I don't recall you answering it. Please explain how Jesus statement (the way you have said you understand it) that not one jot or tittle will pass from the law, yet Hebrews (7:12) says the law has changed.

If not one jot or tittle can pass from the law, then how did some pass?

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

the Hebrews passage is discussing the priestood of Jesus, and how this can be since no mention of priests coming from the tribe of Judah is made in Moses. This can be because of the transference of the priesthood, from the Levitical priesthood, to the Melchizedek priesthood, as was also prophesied in the TeNaKh. the word translated as "change" is # 3331 and #3346 in the Greek, from Strong's. It signifies a transfer from one to another.

This is also why David was not guilty for eating the showbread, when Jesus was asking the Pharisees about it. David was a Melchizedek guy!

To your other question in the post, I have already answered this objection before. The council did not deceide against Christ. They agreed that the converting Gentiles would learn the law of Moses every sabbath when they came to the synagogue to hear Moses read. (Acts 15:21) They confirmed their acceptance of the Gentile converts as brothers, and gave them the four laws from Moses, not from the so-called Noahide laws you suggest, to get them started, saying that if they kept these four things in mind as they conformed their lives to Moses' teaching that they would do well. This greatly encouraged the coverting Gentiles, in that they did not need to become circumcised as adults in order to keep the Law of moses.
hope this helps.

peace, dmatic

[Guest]

TK wrote:

i just finished reading through the book of Leviticus. what a chore.

I'm glad that you read the word of God, but I'm disappointed that you didn't find it enlightening. Maybe if you tried to foster an attitude like David had, (described in Ps. 119 for one)....that He loved the Law of God! it would help!

peace, dmatic

[Guest]

Allyn asked:

but someone said that the Law of Moses was to be taught to the Gentiles. I don't remember who said this but I would like chapter and verse from the person who said it.

It was me Allyn, and I know you don't want to talk to me, but I'll answer your question, if you don't mind.

Jesus taught us to teach everything He taught to His disciples to every nation. (matthew 28:19-20) "Go ye therefore...and teach all nations ...whatsoever I have commanded you."

One of His commands to His disciples is recorded at Matthew 23;2-3, where He said, "The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore, all that he commands you to observe and do, observe and do, but do not ye after their works, for they say and do not."

Another of His commands is recorded at Matthew 5:17-19 where He says; "Do not think that I came to annul the law or the prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill...."

though most professing Christians disobey this command by thinking that Jesus did come to do away with the law, they also teach others to think their way too, and will be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

Allyn, if you need more than these, please ask again, or else, just read the gospels. Jesus always taught his disciples to keep the Laws of God as given through Moses. There is no case where He taught otherwise.

peace, dmatic

I'm sorry but that is still another misrepresentation of what Jesus meant and not only that He was speaking to Jews who were still at that time under the Law and not only that there are not any scribes and Pharisees today and certainly none for Gentiles to have to sit beside for instruction. Christ is our Advocate. Christ is our High Priest forever and He Himself is seated (which has more meaning then you seem to understand). And Christ Himself as placed His word on our heart. Their is no effort we need to provide for Christ provided it all. In fact He called me - I did not call Him.

[Guest]

the Hebrews passage is discussing the priestood of Jesus, and how this can be since no mention of priests coming from the tribe of Judah is made in Moses. This can be because of the transference of the priesthood, from the Levitical priesthood, to the Melchizedek priesthood, as was also prophesied in the TeNaKh. the word translated as "change" is # 3331 and #3346 in the Greek, from Strong's. It signifies a transfer from one to another.

First, it states that the Melchizedek priesthood is unchangeable (and therefore not liable to pass to a successor). And since it predated the Levitical priesthood, it didn't transfer to them to be transferred to Jesus. It's not transferable. The tabernacle was a copy and a shadow of heavenly things. That's why it could never take away sins. It was a teaching device, not means to remove sins.

Second, since the Levitical priesthood was part of the Law of Moses and has been done away with by the new covenant, your assertion (based on a misunderstanding of what Jesus said) that not one jot or tittle can pass from the law is incorrect.

The transfer is our obedience from one covenant to the other.

This is also why David was not guilty for eating the showbread, when Jesus was asking the Pharisees about it. David was a Melchizedek guy!

Jesus said he was guilty:
Mat 12:3 But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:
Mat 12:4 how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?


Are you saying that we, like David can now break the law and be blameless! Jesus said David broke the law.

David was not a "Melchizedek guy". The Melchizedek priesthood does not transfer (Heb 7:24). Jesus is Melchizedek. Jesus is the one without "beginning of days nor end of life" (Heb 7:3).

To your other question in the post, I have already answered this objection before. The council did not deceide against Christ. They agreed that the converting Gentiles would learn the law of Moses every sabbath when they came to the synagogue to hear Moses read. (Acts 15:21) They confirmed their acceptance of the Gentile converts as brothers, and gave them the four laws from Moses, not from the so-called Noahide laws you suggest, to get them started, saying that if they kept these four things in mind as they conformed their lives to Moses' teaching that they would do well. This greatly encouraged the coverting Gentiles, in that they did not need to become circumcised as adults in order to keep the Law of moses.
hope this helps.

peace, dmatic

Sorry but that's not what the text states. Try to exegete the passage and not read into it your ideas of what you think it should say.

Heb 7:18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
Heb 7:19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.


The former commandment (from the Law of Moses) was annulled. May jots and tittles passed! Admit the truth, it will make you free.

[Guest]

Dematic, you said that you can't find anything different in Christ's laws then the Law of Moses.

I think many are different but let's start with a managable amount.
"Love your enemies"
"And when you stand praying , forgive if you have anything against anyone so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses"




Anytime you feel like answering friend feel free. And as Sean also pointed out their is no Levitical priesthood anymore which is a requirement of the LOM. Any comments about that?
Also feel free to comment on other points i brought up that you never answered like,
Immediately after Matt 5.19 Jesus gives six "But i say unto you" statements , clearly transforming the LOM
In John 5 , John the Apostle himself says Jesus broke the Sabbath. That was John himself giving a commentary about what Jesus did.