Contentment

Right & Wrong
_rvornberg
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Post by _rvornberg » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:03 pm

Why did Abraham stop praying when he did? He stopped because he still was lacking the level of intimacy in his relationship with God, which would enable him boldly to continue on with the Lord in prayer until his desire was granted. Whenever we stop short of our true desire in prayer and say, "Well, I don’t know, maybe this is not God’s will," then we still have another level to go.It shows that we are not as intimately acquainted with God as Jesus was, and as Jesus would have us to be—
Think of the last thing you prayed about-were you devoted to your desire or to God?
HUH??
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_rvornberg
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Post by _rvornberg » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:49 pm

Oh... one other thing? TK, are you at the place Oswald Chambers is talking about?

The only reason I ask is because, I'm not sure how to take what Chambers is saying, especially in the light of what Steve said:
Steve wrote:The principal thing is to seek only the will of God and then to be resigned to what may come to me in that pursuit. It is the simplest of all Christian duties. Of course, knowing what the will of God is in many situations may not be simple or obvious, but that is all that needs concern me. Does He want me to marry or be unmarried? What kind of car shall I drive? Where shall I live? Does He want me to get a regular job...and if so, which one?
It seems like if I had a better friendship with God, then I wouldn't have the struggle Steve accurately described as "may not be simple or obvious."

So TK, if you have that kind of frienship with God, how do you get it? If not, still how do you get it?

More bible reading? Better study habits? More prayer? Going to a better church or going to church more? Never sinning?
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_TK
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Post by _TK » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:58 pm

rvornberg wrote:
Oh... one other thing? TK, are you at the place Oswald Chambers is talking about?



Heavens no- not quite there yet, because I still sometimes wonder what God's will is. in fact, i do so quite frequently.

i think oswald's point is that as our friendship with God (or intimacy, or whatever you want to call it) increases, then we wont have so many doubts about what God's will is. Jesus, who was the penultimate example of being intimate with the Father, knew God's will. He knew who God wanted him to heal, where he wanted him to preach, where he wanted him to go-- all the time. that is why the life of Jesus seems so effortless to us.

Note that Oswald says this happens when "you are nearing the final stage of your discipline in the life of faith." certainly not at the beginning or even in the middle.

One of the reasons I like reading this devotional daily is that he really makes you think about what you are reading. His writings are never glib, or easy, but full of truth. He often asks probing questions that we must answer honestly.

In regard to the quote you highlighted about being devoted to our desire or to God-- this is one of the hallmarks of Oswald Chambers' writings. We need to get to the place where our one desire is to get to know Jesus intimately as a person. Our focus should not be on end results, or what we want, or even on our christian service, but rather on a Person.

How do we do that? well, perhaps some of the things you mention would be helpful, if by doing them you are doing them in order to get to know Jesus better, as opposed to just doing them for "religious" reasons.

TK
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"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)

_rvornberg
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Post by _rvornberg » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:44 pm

TK wrote:Heavens no- not quite there yet, because I still sometimes wonder what God's will is. in fact, i do so quite frequently.
You wondering what the will of God is doesn't equal the problem, it equals the symptom of your problem.

The question then becomes what is your problem? You seem like you read you bible. Are you saying you might not read it enough? You seem like you go to church, do you not go to church enough, or maybe you don't go to the right church. Or better yet, you're doing all the right things, but you're doing them for all the wrong reasons.

I suppose, based on all of this, we can go around asking folks if they ever struggle with knowing the will of God. If they say "yes", then we can know with certainty that all though they do all the "right things" their motives are wrong.

Steve, now we know the truth!! :evil:

I'm just not sure about all of that TK. Hopefully you know I'm using humor to make my point.

I really want to continue this conversation though. I read so many of these post that go nowhere.
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_TK
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Post by _TK » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:59 pm

Just because someone hasnt fully matured in the Lord doesnt mean their motives are wrong. it was not my intention to suggest that. My intent was to suggest that many people do, in fact, often do religious activities for the wrong reasons. i am certainly guilty of this.

for example- am i reading my Bible because i want to "cover a certain amount of ground" (i'm trying to read it through this year) or because i want to get to know God better?

am i praying "to get stuff," or to commune with the Father?

i think we often worry too much about knowing God's will. if we are indeed walking with the Lord, and the Holy Spirit isnt constantly "checking" us regarding what we are doing, why not just assume that in fact I am "in" the will of God?

for example, i often wonder if God wants me in my current job. but i like my job; i like who i work with; i don't feel guilty working where I do, and i dont really feel God compelling me to try something else. might i not conclude that I am where God wants me? i would think so. and if i am communing with God regularly, i must trust that if He wants me to change something, I will recognize His voice.

TK
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_rvornberg
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Post by _rvornberg » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:14 pm

TK wrote:for example, i often wonder if God wants me in my current job. but i like my job; i like who i work with; i don't feel guilty working where I do, and i dont really feel God compelling me to try something else. might i not conclude that I am where God wants me?
Well this would be a good place to get back to the topic.

Couple of questions:

1. Why do you often wonder if God wants you in your current job?

2. If you didn't like your job, you didn't like the people you worked with and you really wanted to do something else, but the door never opened for anything else, would you still be content?

3. If so, why? If not, Why? That is: Why wouldn't you be content based on questions from number 2
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_Homer
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Post by _Homer » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:17 pm

I must admit this whole discussion is somewhat mystifying to me. Are we saying that it is God's desire to "micro-manage" our lives? Is that biblical? Seems almost Calvinistic to me.

I have thought for some time that God gives us freedom to live as we decide, within a boundary he has placed around us, that boundary being sin; i.e. going beyond the boundary would be going outside the will of God. And in most cases, we know where that boundary is. He has told us in his word. He does not care if I eat fish for lunch or chicken. He does care if I am a glutton. And I do not think He cares whether a young man becomes an electrician or a dentist. He will be satisfied with either occupation as long as we work as though He is our employer. And as for the car we drive, I do not believe He cares if we drive a Ford or a Toyota. But He does care if we choose a car for reasons of pride, i.e., to look down on others, or if we are not good stewards of the money we have been blessed with.

It seems to me Oswald Chambers was saying much the same:
When you have a right-standing relationship with God, you have a life of freedom, liberty, and delight; you are God’s will. And all of your commonsense decisions are actually His will for you, unless you sense a feeling of restraint brought on by a check in your spirit. You are free to make decisions in the light of a perfect and delightful friendship with God, knowing that if your decisions are wrong He will lovingly produce that sense of restraint. Once he does, you must stop immediately.
If I understand Chambers correctly, through our knowlege of God's word and the working of the Spirit, we will know when we have crossed, or are about to cross, the boundary into sin. That is, if we do not quench the Spirit.

I guess I am curious to know whether those posting here believe, as I do, that there are some things in our lives that God leaves up to us to decide, and our decisions are acceptable to Him as long as they are not sinful.

rvornberg wrote:
You see, many Christians (including myself) want to better our lives. So in order to do that, we often will go for a higher paying job. We'll go for a job that we like better. We get higer education (not always, but most of the time) to further our careers.
Where are any of the underlined things said to be sinful in the scriptures? Only if you are selfish, take advantage of others, etc., would there be any sin involved it seems to me. And it would also be wrong if not getting the job you sought after caused you to react wrongly. That might be coveting against God's will.

Just my 2 cents.
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_rvornberg
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Post by _rvornberg » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:22 pm

Homer wrote:Are we saying that it is God's desire to "micro-manage" our lives? Is that biblical? Seems almost Calvinistic to me.
Steve wrote:The principal thing is to seek only the will of God and then to be resigned to what may come to me in that pursuit. It is the simplest of all Christian duties. Of course, knowing what the will of God is in many situations may not be simple or obvious, but that is all that needs concern me. Does He want me to marry or be unmarried? What kind of car shall I drive? Where shall I live? Does He want me to get a regular job...and if so, which one?
I don't know Homer, what do you think about what Steve said?
Homer wrote:And it would also be wrong if not getting the job you sought after caused you to react wrongly. That might be coveting against God's will.
OK... so if you didn't get the job that you wanted, does that mean it's God's will you didn't get it? Now let assume, the only reason you didn't get it is because that wasn't God's will for your life. Would you be suggesting that God is micro-managing your life. Seems like you're becoming a Calvinist :D

Homer, what would be the proper response, keeping in mind the original topic of being content?
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_Steve
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Post by _Steve » Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:20 am

I would clarify that, in asking what kind of car should I drive, I am not suggesting that God has a specific car that I must purchase in order to be within His will. However, since Paul says, "Whatever you do, whether you eat or drink, do all to the glory of God," it seems clear that choices in the details of life can either glorify God or not.

With reference to specifics, I see God's will as providing some latitude within certain parameters, but those parameters include His concern that we make choices that glorify Him in all areas of life.
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_TK
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Post by _TK » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:27 am

Homer-

i dont disagree with a thing you said; if it appears that I was suggesting otherwise then I am an exceedingly poor communicator. i was trying to make the point that God DOES NOT micromanage our lives. That is why I emphasised the portion of the Chambers quote talking about US being God's will, assuming we are in a right relationship with Him.

TK
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