Can a Christian be a Pacifist?

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Homer
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Re: Can a Christian be a Pacifist?

Post by Homer » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:59 pm

Jeremiah,

Amen to what you said!

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mattrose
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Re: Can a Christian be a Pacifist?

Post by mattrose » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:02 am

I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out deficiencies in someone's style of argumentation. Message boards are generally for debate... and debate certainly includes things like rhetorical style, argumentation, ability to genuinely dialogue, etc. If I point out what I perceive to be deficiencies in this area... that is part of the discussion (and a necessary part).

That being said, I will defend JR's place on this board. When I come to a message board, I want people with different views than my own to push hard. I want to be challenged. I want to see if it takes bad arguments to avoid my own position... or if there are good arguments against my views. I have no problem with JR (though, sometimes, I think it's pointless to continue dialoguing with him in certain threads). In this thread, for instance, I think my own position, or at least my ability to communicate it well, became more precise. I'm thankful for that.

Personally, I think one of the most important attributes of a message boarder is thick skin. Everyone on this site probably has heard Steve's "Refuse to be Offended" message. It is to the glory of a man to overlook an offense. I am persuaded that bold argumentation and debate is one of the best avenues toward discovering truth. And I'm glad to find such discussion here.

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steve
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Re: Can a Christian be a Pacifist?

Post by steve » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:05 am

I apologize if my criticism and advice to JR has offended others. I have not heard whether JR was offended, but others apparently have been.

I want to give everyone at this forum permission in advance to plainly tell me whenever my posting takes on the characteristics I have criticized in his. I would want someone to inform me, as I informed him.

If anyone here wishes not to know how their posts are striking other readers at the forum, please let me know. I will refrain from critical commentary of a participant's posts, if I am informed that the person does not welcome the criticism. Without being told in advance about this, I am likely to assume that whoever posts here is inviting honest reaction from the rest of us.

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Bud
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Re: Can a Christian be a Pacifist?

Post by Bud » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:39 am

I really like what's been happening on this thread lately: efforts towards "lowliness, gentleness, and longsuffering".
Malachi 3:16 Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, and the LORD gave attention and heard [it,] and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD and who esteem His name. (NASB) :)

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mattrose
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Re: Can a Christian be a Pacifist?

Post by mattrose » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:14 pm

Bud wrote:I really like what's been happening on this thread lately: efforts towards "lowliness, gentleness, and longsuffering".
It's almost as if some peacemakers came in pacified everyone without resorting to agressive argumentation :)

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jriccitelli
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Re: Can a Christian be a Pacifist?

Post by jriccitelli » Wed May 01, 2013 1:41 am

Its almost as if someone righted the tables that Jesus tipped over ;)

I got a feeling like I was at my own funeral here, and reading all the epitaphs.
I’m glad everything is better, I appreciate the words of ‘everyone’ here.

You can learn alot - from friends.

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Michelle
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Re: Can a Christian be a Pacifist?

Post by Michelle » Thu May 02, 2013 6:13 pm

I'm glad the air has been cleared and the tables have been righted, or...erm, put right where Jesus would want them. I like the discussions here and frequently join in. Amazing that I've been doing that for nearly nine years! I mostly read without comment, however, because the level of knowledge and scholarship is so far beyond mine that I'm timid about wasting people's time and/or appearing ignorant.

Steve G. said:
If anyone here wishes not to know how their posts are striking other readers at the forum, please let me know. I will refrain from critical commentary of a participant's posts, if I am informed that the person does not welcome the criticism. Without being told in advance about this, I am likely to assume that whoever posts here is inviting honest reaction from the rest of us.
I appreciate knowing when I've missed the point of someone else's argument, or when I've been unclear, unbiblical, or otherwise disagreeable in what I've written. Please, PLEASE let me know when any of that happens.

This was directed at me:
(Don’t respond again by saying you don’t ‘understand’. Someone could easily write off everybody’s post as illogical just because they do not agree)
I will do my best to remember not to respond to JR when I don't understand. If there are others who are offended (or believe that I am being disingenuous) by being told they have not been understood, perhaps that, also, should be noted so that we can avoid stepping on toes.

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jriccitelli
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Re: Can a Christian be a Pacifist?

Post by jriccitelli » Sat May 04, 2013 1:21 pm

Because none of us understand each other consistently and every time proves we are all human. And it proves we all have a God given will of our own, I admire that in a person.

I am really sorry Michelle got part of my rebuttal to Steve in her post.
I'm not confident I can say ‘anything’ at all now, without it ‘perceived’ as mean spirited or argumentative ever since Steve said so.

I am not worried about my character at all here, I have defended my character/motive only because it has become ‘perceived’ that people of ‘certain’ positions do so ‘because’ of an emotional trait or intellectual deficiency - rather than out of intellectual grounds and good biblical reason and guidance. And it makes it 'impossible' to defend some doctrines if people are perceiving we are doing so because we are - hostile – want everyone dead – can't stand to see everyone saved – ignorant - or some other ad-hominem statement.

I did not pursue this thread out of emotion, although I know people in service (my emotions are driven by passion), nor did I pursue this thread because of ‘my’ position on the topic, but pursued it more so to examine the root and reason of the argument (in this case it was pacifism).

And I did not ask this question for the sake of this topic alone, but to examine how deep the reasoning is for ‘any’ and ‘all’ positions, how they developed, and where they are actually coming from (that’s what a electrical service technician does everyday; trouble shooting). (usually it is just a loose wire 'somewhere', or something wired backwards)

And certainly because I feel it ‘may’ be tied to peculiar definitions of love, the atonement, etc, and of course Gods character, will and purpose...

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Homer
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Re: Can a Christian be a Pacifist?

Post by Homer » Sat May 04, 2013 10:07 pm


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mattrose
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Re: Can a Christian be a Pacifist?

Post by mattrose » Sat May 04, 2013 11:09 pm

Homer wrote:Did the mother sin? What say ye:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... ml?hpid=z1
I don't know the story (since I don't watch the news and only read 1 page of the article). It sounds like the intruder was clearly not there to rob them (or else why seek out the hiding family?), but to harm them. She acted in self-defense and with violence in lieu of the police not being there fast enough. I wouldn't say she 'sinned.' I'd say she did the right thing to protect her family.

If she's a Christian, she should go and visit the man. Offer forgiveness... and help. She should also teach her children that despite what they were forced to witness, violence is not the 'kingdom' answer to violence. Her actions were part of a fallen world.

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