Pledges of Allegiance

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darinhouston
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Re: Pledges of Allegiance

Post by darinhouston » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:12 pm

I thought this was pretty good:

The extent to which we have to invent or even feign caveats should, itself, give us pause.
Christians and the Pledge of Allegiance

By Steve Hampton


“I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

This public oath, taught to children and repeated by most Americans many times throughout their lives, is familiar to us all. Yet, what does it mean for Christians? Should Christians be making such an oath, a promise, a pledge? Furthermore, what should be a Christian’s attitude toward his or her country?

Let’s begin by examining the Pledge. Take out the flag part, as it’s just a symbol of the republic for which it stands. And set aside the “one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all,” as those are just descriptions of the republic (which may be revisited later).[1] We’re left with “I pledge allegiance to the republic.” That is the essence of the Pledge. But what are we really saying? “Allegiance” in the dictionary is defined as “loyalty, or the obligation of loyalty, as to a nation…” “Pledge” is defined as “a formal promise”. So, while each may have his or her own interpretation, I suggest the most general meaning of the Pledge of Allegiance is a formal, public promise of loyalty to our nation.

Without major caveats, it seems inappropriate that a Christian should make such a promise. Let’s begin, of course, with Jesus, and then look to the example of the early Church. Jesus announced early in His ministry that He was bringing “the Good News of the Kingdom of God” (Luke 4:43). He repeatedly refers to His Kingdom, noting that it is “not of this world” (John 18:36).[2] Indeed, His Kingdom (and its characteristics as laid out in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5) is so unlike worldly Kingdoms as to invite confusion, scorn, and ridicule. It is not delimited by geographic borders, nor defended by a military. The Jews, outraged that this so-called messiah was not leading a violent overthrow of the Roman occupation army, called for His execution. His Kingdom relied on other methods, but would still grow “like a mustard seed” (Matthew 13:31).

The early Christian church, whether members of a people group occupied by Rome, or Romans themselves, considered themselves members of the Kingdom of God. They believed themselves to be the beginnings of the glorious prophecies in Isaiah whereby people “will beat their swords into plowshares” (Isaiah 2:4), led by a “Prince of Peace, of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end” (Isaiah 9:6-7).[3] They believed these things were being fulfilled within their small growing church, the Kingdom of God. In this sense, they viewed themselves as very much apart from the normal political spectrum and off the political map. Much like Native American tribes in the United States today, they considered themselves an independent nation, although physically within the boundaries of a worldly nation. The early church referred to itself as “a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation” (1 Peter 2:9), whose “citizenship” was in heaven (Philippians 3:20). God, they said, “has made us to be a kingdom” (Revelation 1:6).[4]

This notion of the church’s “independence” from earthly kingdoms is quite stark in some New Testament writings. When John was imprisoned on the island of Patmos (the Roman equivalent of Alcatraz), he penned a letter now known as the book of Revelation. Amidst imagery of the persecution of believers, he describes “the kings of the earth” in negative terms throughout the book. They stand in contrast to “the multitude” of believers.[5] Clearly, John viewed the church as a people living within, but yet apart, from all worldly kingdoms. The early church willingly and routinely faced persecution and death, often over their refusal to join the military or pledge an oath to Caesar.

Both Jesus and Paul addressed the specific question of loyalty to government in two well-known texts, Matthew 22 and Romans 13. When the Pharisees attempted to put Jesus into a Catch-22 over the question of paying taxes to the Romans, he asked whose image was on the coin. “Caesar’s,” they replied. “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s,” Jesus replied (Matthew 22:21). It’s a cute answer, but what does it mean? The coin clearly belongs to Caesar; it has his image on it. But then what belongs to God? Well, what has God’s image on it? Yes, the word “image” is the same used to denote that we are created “in the image of God” (Genesis 1:27). Noting that even Caesar is made in the image of God, we see that what is God’s encompasses all things, including the coin. It is now less clear whether we should give that coin back to Caesar. However, what is clear is that loyalty to God clearly has supremacy over loyalty to Caesar.

When Paul writes to the Romans, he is writing to a church so persecuted that they are on the verge of forsaking their traditional peaceful, non-violent response (often termed “patient endurance” (e.g., Revelation 1:9)) and turning to weapons to defend themselves or even attack the Roman authorities. The relevant passage reads:
“Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: ‘It is mine to avenge; I will repay,’ says the Lord. On the contrary: ‘If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.’ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted… it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience (Romans 12:17-13:5).

This is perhaps the most oft-quoted passage in the New Testament used to support patriotism, loyalty, and obedience to country.[6] The context, however, must be remembered. Paul himself, by preaching the Good News of the Kingdom, disobeyed Roman law and was imprisoned. He no doubt knew the words of the apostles, “We must obey God rather than men!” (Acts 5:29), as he was present (as Saul) at the stoning of Stephen. This rather obvious qualifier to Romans 13 opens the door to subjecting all state policies to the litmus test of God’s law. The main intent of the passage appears to be to calm the church’s desire to strike back and to encourage them to stay on their non-violent course. One of the motivating factors that Paul uses is to remind them that God uses governments, both evil and good, for His purposes.[7] In this case, it appears that Paul is calling the authorities “evil”, but nevertheless requires submission to them. In this case, submission means a non-violent response to persecution and a willingness to accept the punishments of the authorities.[8] It is not, however, a submission of the Kingdom of God to a worldly kingdom. Rather, submission to their persecutors (combined with servanthood and acts of love) was merely one of the methods by which the members of the church would communicate the message of Jesus to their oppressors. The ultimate loyalty of the church, of course, remained with the Kingdom of God.

When not openly persecuted, the early church was often publicly criticized for its failure to support the Roman military and perceived lack of loyalty. These Christians were, at best, bad citizens. At worst, they were a threat to the state. To this complaint, church leader Origen responded, “You urge us to fight for the king… [but] we by our prayer vanquish all demons who stir up war and lead to the violation of oaths and disturb the peace. We in this way are much more helpful to the kings than those who go into the field to fight for them.”

All this said, there are many functions of the state that are good and in no way conflict with the Kingdom of God. A state (or any organizational structure) is simply a group of people binding themselves together to provide for common needs.[9] Thus, a state, at its most basic level, is an example of human cooperation to provide goods and services. Many of these services are humanitarian in nature (e.g., sewers, fire protection, schools). To this end, it certainly seems within the teachings of Jesus to participate and cooperate in these endeavors. In Paul’s epistles, submission to government authorities is often mentioned along with obedience of wives to husbands and slaves to masters (e.g., Titus 2:2-3:2, 2 Peter 2:13-3:6).[10] The proper attitude was one of respect and loving servanthood (the usual methods of Christ), but did not include carte blanche allegiance.

Suppose now that we take all the above into account and are comfortable reciting the Pledge of Allegiance with the major caveat that loyalty to God comes first. We would still have to add an additional caveat. We cannot pledge exclusive loyalty to any one nation at the expense of another nation, should two nations come into conflict. First of all, there are now Christian churches in every nation.[11] Clearly, the idea that Christians enter into conflict against each other, under the banner of their earthly nation of residence, is unpalatable. We bemoan the Civil War in the United States, the slaughter of Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda, and on-going bloodshed in Northern Ireland —all instances where nearly all combatants called themselves Christian, and yet loyalty to state, ethnicity, or simply economic concerns led them to forsake the Kingdom of God.

We are called to have a missionary focus, to love all peoples, and to “make disciples of all nations” (Matthew 28:19). In fact, the term “all nations” appears so many times in the New Testament (and the messianic prophecies in Isaiah) that there is no need to emphasize the point that our God is international in scope. Paul, in visiting and discipling believers across the Mediterranean, appeared far too busy with “Kingdom work” that he had no place for political allegiance; he was a missionary and he loved all whom he visited. He epitomized Jesus’ description of His followers, having no true earthly home, “no place to lay his head” (Matthew 8:20). We, too, are called to view the world as missionaries, to be “Christ’s ambassadors” (2 Corinthians 5:20), working to further His Kingdom and make it grow. Given this life-encompassing calling to be workers in God’s Kingdom, it seems that we have to put so many caveats on the Pledge of Allegiance as to make it meaningless. Rather than deceive our fellow Americans by reciting an oath with so many qualifiers, let us respectfully decline and follow the example of the early church. Rather than participate in the sacramentum, the pledge of allegiance to the Roman emperor (or, for recruits, to the Roman military), the early church considered the bread and wine of communion as their alternative pledge, which we now know by that name: sacrament. That was the only pledge they said.







[1] This article does not discuss the current debate over the inclusion of “under God” in the Pledge.
[2] “The Kingdom” is mentioned over 100 times in the four Gospels.
[3] Justin Martyr, a 2nd century church leader, wrote "We who were filled with war and mutual slaughter...changed our warlike weapons into plowshares and our spears into implements of tillage."
[4] This seems a far different notion from many Christians in America today, who typically view loyalty to country as an obligation, while the Kingdom of God simply refers to the afterlife or is relegated to a status akin to that of a philanthropic society.
[5] Eventually, “the kings of the earth” come to worship the Lamb when “the kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord” (Revelation 11:15).
[6] Ironically, this passage is one of the only passages in the New Testament used to justify war. In these instances, the verses from Romans 12 are not cited. Instead, the verses from Romans 13 are simply lifted out of context and applied toward a wide variety of government actions.
[7] The Old Testament contains many examples of God using Israel to punish other nations, and vice versa. The Babylonian captivity, which spans significant parts of the Old Testament, is the most prominent example of the latter.
[8] This was a central tenet of Gandhi’s non-violent practices as well, to willingly accept the punishment inflicted by the state. Cyprian, an early Christian leader in North Africa, wrote, “Christians are not allowed to kill, but they must be willing to be put to death.”
[9] At least, this was at the heart of John Locke’s political theory of the social contract. In reality, we are born and find ourselves citizens of a pre-existing state over which we have little control.
[10] Paul’s letters do not address the morality of slavery as an institution. They do provide advice for those caught up in slavery, counseling a non-violent Christ-like response that respects the humanity of their masters.
[11] It is interesting to note that one church in Basra, Iraq, was founded by Saint Thomas in the first century A.D. and still recites the liturgy in Aramaic, the language of Jesus.

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jriccitelli
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Re: Pledges of Allegiance

Post by jriccitelli » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:51 am

As someone said define it how you want. For me the pledge is defined by liberty and justice for all. Knowing under God was 'added' doesn't make a difference because I know 'God is for equality and justice for all'. Pledges and oaths did not start with Francis Bellamy (Francis?), so he doesn't make a difference. What makes a difference is the difference in our conception of equality, justice and freedom for all in the drawing up of our constitution.
It is wrong to force the mandatory pledge of allegiance, as much as it is wrong to force students to put up with socialist teachers in schools, but to remove what little sense of unity, principle, integrity and history there is left to culture and youth in our country would be like removing all the fruit trees from the land and then wonder why our health is suffering.


It is wrong to force the pledge or chastise children for not doing so, as some dingbats seem to have done, but we can’t let dingbats ruin every last bit of sense and morality we have to appease the feelings of those who don't 'want' to see or participate in something valuable.

I do not pledge as if I am held to the pledge against my own biblical principles. I pledge in hope that each day will be one of liberty and justice for all. And my pledge is to love liberty and justice for which this country stands, and my liberty means I 'can' stand and salute, and if you don't want to stand for liberty and justice, fine sit if you want.

I do not stand because I am in love with my country nor its leaders regardless,but for the principle from which it was formed and founded on. A principle which our founders clearly were aware was susceptible to ruin by human failure and immorality, in fact that is the reason they established the necessary balances and checks in governance and constitution.

The founders wrote of the imperfection of government and the weakness of our own constitution due to man’s immoral leanings and corruptible nature but this is the best we can do, so with that in mind they were united to defend liberty, not for the sake of themselves but for freedom and liberty itself. These are principles for which I to can stand.

To some our flag is just a piece of cloth, and to some our land is just a piece of dirt, but to me it is the principle upon which I stand, and the flag a hope, and a goal. It is the home, accomplishment and preservation of which millions have died to defend and protect. And by in large it is these men women and families to whom I salute whenever the jets fly overhead (that is until the government gets rid of our jet fighters, then we can all be forced to salute some other flag, but I’ll be sitting down when they salute any other principle but freedom and equality)

Also we need unity at work, in our home, and in civil government. I agree to live by most the rules of my city, that's an allegiance (and I can argue them, thanks to my freedom and country). I pledge allegiance to my company, but I have freedom to leave if I want (thanks to our country). This is not a dictatorship or monarchy, nor am I a prisoner (except to the IRS). I can secede if I wish but I will do all I 'can' to protect the Union.
I am sure God knows my constitutional pledge is for unity, He knows my heart, and that His will takes precedence over any human principle or oath, just as many of our own founding fathers believed.

(It seems Steve Hampton (above) set aside the 'liberty and justice for all' part, he then said they "may be revisited later" but I do not see that he ever goes back and mentions this part - an important part of which our nation stands)

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Re: Pledges of Allegiance

Post by psimmond » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:15 pm

My kids have spent most of their life outside of the US, so when we were back in the US a couple years ago, they attended an Awana meeting and told me later that were confused and a bit embarrassed at the beginning when everyone stood in a circle around the flag, covered their hearts, and started saying something. (The friendly adult standing next to them noticed their dilemma and whispered to them to just mouth the word "watermelon.") :lol:

I had attended Awana as a kid but forgot all about that. When my kids told me what had happened, my first thought was, Man, I screwed up as a parent; I need to teach them the pledge! But my second thought was, Do I? They've lived a fine life for many years without it.

I also remember when I student taught a 5th grade class many years ago. On my first day I told everyone to stand for the pledge. (I had been told that this was part of their daily routine.) Well, everyone stood except one little girl. Thinking she wasn't paying attention, I repeated myself. She just sat there. Then I was confused. It seemed she was being belligerent but the look on her face was one of extreme discomfort. Finally, the teacher, who was off in the corner not paying attention realized what was happening and quickly came to the girl's aid, telling me that she was a Jehovah’s Witness.

When I thought about that event over the years, I typically felt pity for the young girl and a bit of anger toward her parents for forcing that situation on her. But now I'm not sure how I feel. After reading through this thread, I'm still not sure if I should teach my children the pledge for the next time they find themselves in a room full of pledge takers in the US.
Let me boldly state the obvious. If you are not sure whether you heard directly from God, you didn’t.
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Re: Pledges of Allegiance

Post by thrombomodulin » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:45 pm

jriccitelli wrote:God is for equality and justice for all
Unfortunately, various people define "equality" and "justice" in ways that are polar opposites (e.g. perhaps you have seen former discussion between Kaufmanphillips, CandlePower, and I). I don't know your political opinions - can you define in what way you mean it? In what specific ways do you observe the government fulfilling this objective in the present era?
jriccitelli wrote:to remove what little sense of unity, principle, integrity and history there is left to culture and youth in our country would be like removing all the fruit trees from the land and then wonder why our health is suffering.
What topic are you addressing? Is it how believers ought to instruct their own children, whether government schools should or should not recite the pledge, or whether an Awana program should include it? Why is a sense of unity important? Are you trying to establish unity amongst fellow believers, or between believers and non-believers of this world? There are a multitude of better ways for me to communicate "principles, integrity and history" to my own child. What do you expect a child to learn in particular from the pledge, such that it is such an indispensable mechanism? Why do you think things would be worse off if no one recited the pledge at all?
jriccitelli wrote: but for the principle from which it was formed and founded on ... they established the necessary balances and checks in governance and constitution.
Can you enumerate these principles? What government activities were supposed to be restrained by these checks and balances? How have those checks and balances been working out? If you were to examine the scope of current federal government expenditures or regulations, what percentage of these are pursuant to your principles? what percentage are contrary to your principles?
...but this is the best we can do...
A constitutional republic certainly has its problems. It is not obvious, at least to me, that all other forms of government are inferior to one we are currently subjected to.

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Re: Pledges of Allegiance

Post by Candlepower » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:55 pm

Thank you, Darin, for including that piece by Steve Hampton. I especially like the last sentences:
Rather than deceive our fellow Americans by reciting an oath with so many qualifiers, let us respectfully decline and follow the example of the early church. Rather than participate in the sacramentum, the pledge of allegiance to the Roman emperor (or, for recruits, to the Roman military), the early church considered the bread and wine of communion as their alternative pledge, which we now know by that name: sacrament. That was the only pledge they said.
jriccitelli wrote:Pledges and oaths did not start with Francis Bellamy (Francis?), so he doesn't make a difference.
Yes, the correct spelling is Francis, according to my sources. It was not my intention to imply that oaths started with Francis. We all know they didn't. But the American Pledge of Allegiance did start with him, so I think it does make a difference for us. His being a socialist certainly raises a Red Flag for me.

We know, of course, that when most people recite the Pledge they are not knowingly following Francis' subversive lead. But they are following his lead. I doubt not one American in a million knows about the Bellamy connection. So, they are ignorantly following his lead. To me, that makes a difference. And it somehow seems it should really make a difference when you do learn about the connection.

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Re: Pledges of Allegiance

Post by darinhouston » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:42 am

I get justice, but are liberty and equality even biblical principles? Egypt comes to mind but is that enough to establish a biblical principle? Jesus only seemed interested in freedom as it pertained to sin and evil unless I'm forgetting something.

SteveF

Re: Pledges of Allegiance

Post by SteveF » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:26 am

darinhouston wrote:I get justice, but are liberty and equality even biblical principles? Egypt comes to mind but is that enough to establish a biblical principle? Jesus only seemed interested in freedom as it pertained to sin and evil unless I'm forgetting something.
I guess my question is, are you expecting it to be biblical? The United States is not a Theocracy.

It’s my understanding the constitution itself was based on political philosophy dating from the time of Plato until the time of its writing. I find it hard to follow the notion that the constitution was based solely on biblical principles.

I’ve never been formally taught US history (not being a citizen) so my understanding of your country’s history is somewhat fragmented. I can say, from what little I’ve learned, that I’ve found the claims that America is a Christian nation, founded by Christians and based on biblical principles somewhat romanticized.

SteveF

Re: Pledges of Allegiance

Post by SteveF » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:41 am

Candlepower wrote: 2) True to his socialist dogma, Bellamy had initially considered using the slogan of the diabolical French Revolution, “Liberty, equality and fraternity.”
I understand that Thomas Jefferson was an outspoken supporter of the French Revolution. He only later disagreed with certain aspects of it, but in principle agreed with its original driving philosophy.

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Re: Pledges of Allegiance

Post by darinhouston » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:48 am

SteveF wrote:
darinhouston wrote:I get justice, but are liberty and equality even biblical principles? Egypt comes to mind but is that enough to establish a biblical principle? Jesus only seemed interested in freedom as it pertained to sin and evil unless I'm forgetting something.
I guess my question is, are you expecting it to be biblical? The United States is not a Theocracy.

It’s my understanding the constitution itself was based on political philosophy dating from the time of Plato until the time of its writing. I find it hard to follow the notion that the constitution was based solely on biblical principles.

I’ve never been formally taught US history (not being a citizen) so my understanding of your country’s history is somewhat fragmented. I can say, from what little I’ve learned, that I’ve found the claims that America is a Christian nation, founded by Christians and based on biblical principles somewhat romanticized.
I agree. That's sort of my point. I think Americans can fall prey to the risk of worshipping at the altar of freedom and nationalism (which is ironic, because it leads to servitude of a different sort) and the pledge plays a part in that indoctrination and mind control. I could use the same approach as above for creedal statements etc., but I think there is a subconscious risk in recitations even when I may have a conscious rationalization.

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Re: Pledges of Allegiance

Post by jriccitelli » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:28 pm

"I get justice, but are liberty and equality even biblical principles? "
"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free"

2 Corinthians 8:14 NIV
Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. Then there will be equality,
Leviticus 25:10 NIV
Consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you; each one of you is to return to his family property and each to his own clan.
Psalm 119:45 NIV
I will walk about in freedom, for I have sought out your precepts
Isaiah 61:1 NIV
[The Year of the LORD's Favor] The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,
Jeremiah 34:8 NIV
[Freedom for Slaves] The word came to Jeremiah from the LORD after King Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people in Jerusalem to proclaim freedom for the slaves.
Jeremiah 34:15 NIV
Recently you repented and did what is right in my sight: Each of you proclaimed freedom to his countrymen. You even made a covenant before me in the house that bears my Name… Therefore, this is what the LORD says: You have not obeyed me; you have not proclaimed freedom for your fellow countrymen. So I now proclaim 'freedom' for you, declares the LORD--'freedom' to fall by the sword, plague and famine. I will make you abhorrent to all the kingdoms of the earth.
Romans 8:21 NIV
That the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

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