Christians and the Covid Vaccine

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dwight92070
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:16 am

I took my wife to see a Kaiser doctor yesterday. The doctor asked us if we were vaccinated. We said "no". She (the doctor) asked us later, "I don't suppose I could convince you two to get the vaccine. We told her "no". I added "Too many people have died and many more have been permanently disabled from the vaccine. She shook her head and said "Zero have died." I told her that I've read the reports of their deaths and disabilities. She just ignored that and dropped the subject.

Can you believe that? Even the flu vaccine has killed some people, but somehow she believes "zero" have died from this "miracle vaccination". What sheer deception! Apparently Kaiser is a big supporter of Biden's evil vaccine mandate, to the point where they'll even believe the lie that no one has died
from it, not even one person.

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:33 am

dwight92070 wrote:
Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:16 am
I took my wife to see a Kaiser doctor yesterday. The doctor asked us if we were vaccinated. We said "no". She (the doctor) asked us later, "I don't suppose I could convince you two to get the vaccine. We told her "no". I added "Too many people have died and many more have been permanently disabled from the vaccine. She shook her head and said "Zero have died." I told her that I've read the reports of their deaths and disabilities. She just ignored that and dropped the subject.

Can you believe that? Even the flu vaccine has killed some people, but somehow she believes "zero" have died from this "miracle vaccination". What sheer deception! Apparently Kaiser is a big supporter of Biden's evil vaccine mandate, to the point where they'll even believe the lie that no one has died
from it, not even one person.
I'm pretty sure it's actually illegal for Doctors to try and "convince you" to get the vaccine. They can ask if you have and counsel you on facts (and they get to add a Covid counseling code to your bill and a fed grant sends them an extra fee through the insurance company billing), but not try and convince you. Psychiatrists are starting to discuss what is plainly evident to anyone willing to consider it - something they call mass formation psychosis. It is affecting Doctors as well as others and explains a lot. I'll post a good interview on that subject if I come across one, but another thing affecting Doctors (relevant to your Kaiser experience) is federal health care policy. See this...
https://www.theepochtimes.com/federal-involvement-in-health-care-drives-treatment-choices_4167312.html wrote: Federal Involvement in Health Care Drives Treatment Choices

Around the United States, in numerous cases, hospitalized COVID-19 patients have asked for Ivermectin but were denied the drug, and then sought a court order forcing the hospital to provide the requested medication. Ivermectin, which has been used safely in humans since 1985, has shown promise in treating the virus, especially when taken early. Although it is an off-label use and not guaranteed to work every time, it is legal for doctors to prescribe Ivermectin for COVID-19, and many patients, some desperate and dying, want to give it a try.

Why are so many hospitals opposed to trying safe, inexpensive Ivermectin? The answer is tied to the complicated financial house of cards covering the entire health care system.

This isn’t a story about Ivermectin; it’s about what COVID-19 exposed in America’s health care system. The federal government, pharmaceutical, and insurance companies hold the reins on what care hospital administrators can offer. They never looked at your chart, but have a say in your treatment, and doctors who stray from administrative protocol can kiss their careers goodbye.

Here is a look at the many forces driving health care decisions outside the doctor-patient relationship.

Sick People Are Profitable

Indiana-based Dr. Dan Stock is a family medicine physician connected to America’s Frontline Doctors, a medical freedom organization promoting treatments such as Ivermectin for COVID-19. He says finances guide much of today’s health care landscape.

“Almost no one pays for direct care anymore,” Stock told The Epoch Times. “You pay for your care as you give your money to the federal government through taxes, or to an insurance company through premiums.”

The insurance company or the government buys the service for you as a third party. That’s a problem, Stock says, because “The federal government never has paid its bills. Every doctor and every hospital lose money on every Medicare and Medicaid patient who comes in the door.” And to make up the loss, he says, the cost of health care is inflated for those with private insurance.

A 2017 fact sheet produced by the American Hospital Association said the annual shortfall borne by hospitals is $57.8 billion, and privately insured patients and others make up the difference.

Nonprofit hospitals are federally required to accept Medicare, Medicaid, retired military insurance, Indian Health Services, and all federal insurance programs.

This cost-shifting caused inflation of medical prices and that sparked increases in private health insurance premiums.

“Employers started screaming about it, people started dropping their private insurance because it just wasn’t worth the money anymore, so that’s why the Affordable Care Act got passed,” Stock said. “The idea was, look, market forces won’t make you join in and buy through the third-party payment scheme to keep Medicare and Medicaid afloat. Hospitals are screaming ‘we’re going to go bankrupt.’ So the Affordable Care Act comes out, which says that everybody in the country has to buy insurance, and if you’re an employer, you have to buy it for your employee. You’re not allowed to say no. If you do, we give you a great big tax.”

That kept Medicare and Medicaid funded, Stock says.

“But there was a problem with the Affordable Care Act. They have this thing called Medical Loss Ratio,” Stock said. “Somebody talked to these idiots in our federal government into saying, hey, if you’re a private insurance company, you have to spend 80–85 percent of the premiums you take in on medical supplies and services. Only 15–20 percent of it can be given to the stockholders or be used to pay administrative fees.”

With this rule, insurance companies are more profitable when patients stay sick.

For example, let’s say the insurance company plans to cover 100 patients with high blood pressure, and it plans to buy a certain blood pressure drug. It estimates the dose these patients will use and negotiates a price with the drug company.

“I’m not going to try and negotiate a low price. I want the price to be high because I’m going to get to keep 20 percent of whatever I buy for them,” Stock said. “The drug company is like, fine, I’ll sell you the high price. Now let’s say two of those 100 patients start eating better food and get rid of their high blood pressure. They don’t need the drug anymore.” The insurance company budgeted to earn based on everyone staying sick. With two people off the drug, the company loses 2 percent of its anticipated profit, in this example.

“The insurance company would have made more money if the population would have stayed sicker and bought more stuff. Let’s take the flip side,” Stock said. “Let’s say 100 percent of those patients see their blood pressure get worse. Now they need to take an additional medication. I’m going to lose money because let’s say 90 percent of the premium I’ve collected has to go buy drugs for high blood pressure patients. Now I’m not going to make as much profit. So, the insurance industry has become a pre-payment scheme for health care services and the way they maximize their income is, don’t buy at low prices, buy at high prices and then force everybody to stay on budget.”

Health Care Systems and Codes

How do insurance companies predict the public’s health?

Electronic records, developed around 20 years ago, helped doctors track patient data such as sodium level, blood sugar, and kidney function. About five years later the government realized hospitals and independent doctors were tracking that information but couldn’t share data with each other because of privacy rules associated with the HIPAA Law.

That is why, in 2012, Accountable Care Organizations (ACO) were formed. Doctors and hospitals that join an ACO are now working for one big employer.

Medicare and Medicaid said anybody who is not part of an ACO would have their reimbursement cut by 3 percent. It also offered a 2 percent increase to those who did join an ACO, Stock said.

“You’ve got to know that the margins in medicine are really narrow. Most hospitals have a one or two percent margin,” Stock said.

“The federal government then said, to get that 2 percent and to maintain your reimbursement, there are two other things you have to do,” Stock said.

First, ACOs became obligated to use an electronic medical record system and report data back to the feds and insurance companies.

The data doesn’t drill down to the level of “John Smith has asthma,” but it does tell what percentage of coronary artery disease patients are on a statin drug, or what percent of people with COVID-19 are being treated with respirators.

To enter the information into the computer system, doctors must link a treatment to a diagnosis. They must link a Current Procedural Terminology (CPT code) with an International Classification of Diseases (ICD diagnosis code).

“For instance,” Stock said. “I’m not allowed to just go write somebody a prescription for Losartan. I have to write a prescription for Losartan and link it to a diagnosis, in this case blood pressure, so they can tell what I did.”

If a doctor were to link a treatment like Ivermectin to an off-protocol diagnosis, such as COVID-19, the ACO will be financially punished and the doctor would face consequences, Stock said. To change the diagnosis code to a government acceptable code but use the medicine for something else would be fraud. The prescription must match the diagnosis in the protocol.

Here’s the second thing the government said you had to do to maintain your 2 percent reimbursement: the government and insurance companies came up with a Pay for Performance plan, also known as value-based programs.

“These programs reward health care providers with incentive payments for the quality of care they give to people with Medicare,” the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) website says. “Our value-based programs are important because they’re helping us move toward paying providers based on the quality, rather than the quantity of care they give patients.”

The CMS website lists “quality improvement organizations” that develop and implement these programs, including the National Quality Forum; the Joint Commission of the Accreditation of Health Care Organizations; the National Committee for Quality Assurance; the Agency for Health Care Research and Quality; the American Medical Association. Some of these groups are led by former insurance, pharmaceutical or CMS executives.

Now the government, advised by insurance and drug companies, defines what good medicine is, Stock says. Doctors must make a diagnosis and provide the protocol code of care.

CMS bases reimbursements on how well health care systems meet these guidelines.

Like a social credit score, individual health care providers are being scored by their performance.

“Every doctor, nurse practitioner, and physical therapist is a cost center for the hospital and the ACO knows exactly how many referrals and how many lab tests they contracted, and they know how much profit individuals are getting from the insurance company,” Stock said. “They’ll come and tell you verbally, they won’t put it down on paper, but administrators will show you exactly how much money the ACO is making on you, how much you’re doing, and if you’re not profitable they’ll get rid you.”

New doctors can come out of college with $350,000 in debt. Older doctors may have kids in college. They sign a contract with a restricted clause that says if the ACO fires them, they must move 10-15 miles away from their practice or from all properties in the ACO.

“You have to stay away for a year, sometimes two years, you’re not allowed to advertise within that exclusionary area, you’re not allowed to tell your patients where you’re going, you’re not allowed to take a copy of your charts with you. For every provider in medicine, our business is our patients’ faith in us and our advice, and now the ACO owns that, which means they own your business capital and they can bankrupt you,” Stock said. “And if they fire you because you’re not profitable, no other ACO wants you because they know you’re not profitable.”

Training the Next Generation

The federal government has a program for new doctors with college debt. Work 10 years at a non-profit ACO and your loans are forgiven. That means 10 years of following the protocols.

“If the doctors aren’t following it, the hospital and the ACO takes a financial hit. An ACO can bankrupt easily because the margins are small and so they control what the doctor can go study,” Stock said. “Now the doctor comes to work every day with a financial gun to his head. ‘If I don’t follow these protocols made by the federal government and the insurance companies, I may end up getting fired, then my family doesn’t make money. I’ve got to go study what the government and insurance company tells me to go study for continuing education. I don’t get to think on my own.’ They’re talking over the entire profession. They have been doing this for 15 years. These doctors are unable to think on their own. Doctors cannot question the federal government. That’s how health care works in the United States right now.”

Beth Brelje
Beth Brelje is an investigative journalist covering Pennsylvania politics, courts, and the commonwealth’s most interesting and sometimes hidden news. Send her your story ideas: Beth.brelje@epochtimes.us

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:53 am

Here is an interview/discussion of Mass Formation Psychosis

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f ... 0543382769

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:01 am

And FINALLY some reporting on immune system fatigue. We really just can't keep jacking with the immune system like a drug addict looking to sustain a "high" - some awful things are going to happen (both to the vaccinated and the unvaccinated). We need to start looking at other health stats - all cause mortality and cancers and other illness are going to be off the charts (and are already showing signs of this). Cancers are coming in at record pace and doctors are curious why so many are late stage sudden onset. I know several people myself with unexplained fatal illnesses right now that are going nowhere fast and defy explanation. Cases of AIDS (not HIV, good ol' old fashioned acquired immunodeficiency syndrome) are up and are being correlated to the vaccines. Homer, you are old enough to remember thalidomide. It took quite a while to realize what that "perfectly safe" product was doing to people. This is not a new phenomenon.

https://dnyuz.com/2021/12/23/israel-con ... premature/

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:10 am

And we are STILL discounting the value of natural immunity. This made some sense in the beginning out of fear of encouraging willful infections. But, now it's just insanity and perversion. It really can't be denied (rationally) but you will be banned if you suggest it in the media.

Here is a compendium of studies...

https://brownstone.org/articles/79-rese ... nd-quoted/

and some articles and discussions on natural immunity...

https://www.jeremyrhammond.com/2021/09/ ... roduction/
https://www.jeremyrhammond.com/natural- ... ars-cov-2/

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:11 am

darinhouston wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:51 pm
Homer wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:10 pm
From where the rubber meets the road, Beaumont Hospital, Royal Oak, Michigan:
Ventilators have become a common hospital metric over the course of the coronavirus pandemic, but one Michigan doctor highlighted that the use of such machines typically signals a dire future for most COVID-19 patients.

"Once people get intubated, their course tends to be long and protracted," Dr. Barbara Ducatman, the chief medical officer at Beaumont Hospital, Royal Oak, told Newsweek. "People die once they get to that point."

"Those are where we see most of our deaths—from patients who have been intubated in the ICU," she said.

Across Beaumont's eight hospitals, which are a part of Michigan's largest healthcare system there are currently 563 COVID patients. Among those hospitalizations, unvaccinated people account for two-thirds.

But those figures become much more skewed when analyzing the number of patients who require ventilation. Of the 51 patients on a ventilator, more than 85 percent of them are unvaccinated.

"Vaccinated patients tend to come in and they spend a few days in the hospital, usually on a little bit of supplemental oxygen, not a lot. They may end up in the progressive unit, which means they're a little bit sicker, but generally, they don't end up going to the ICU, getting intubated, and then spending a very long time in the hospital," Ducatman said.
This was some time ago and with Delta. There is definitely a benefit (at least in the short term and at least with Delta) from that kind of serious illness and death. But, that does not negate the harm it does to others (a much larger number than die) and does not negate what appears to be happening with other variants now and the future OR the fact that it seems that this perpetual vaccination and boosting during the pandemic has likely caused and will continue to cause escape variants that may well escape all vaccination attempts and even natural immunity. The only hope is that it doesn't become more severe. Thankfully omicron seems less so, but that remains to be seen.
I would also suggest that there are a LOT of confounding variables that makes it very difficult to draw conclusions even from this simple observation. Just a few that come to mind.
  • unvaccinated might tend to wait longer to come in, thinking all will be well. That is often true, but not always. Early intervention is always the key
  • monoclonal antibody treatments are being denied to many based on race, age, demographics, etc. (I have a friend who went in to get them and was turned away because he was too young to "need" them and wasn't in an "underserved community."
  • horrific bias against early intervention treatments by medical community. prescriptions for off-label use are being denied and doctors are losing privileges in hospital networks if they don't "toe the line." (my own doctor confirmed this when refusing to give me a medical letter for my employer)
  • bias exists in admissions against the unvaccinated - medical commentators are literally suggesting in public that priority in treatment should be given to vaccinated.
  • medical bias towards early intubation for unvaccinated exists because doctors "think" they have no other choice. Once intubated, even if unnecessary, recovery is highly unlikely
  • many more...
Consider this interview with Rand Paul - he (rightfully) believes many thousands died BECAUSE of these biases and prejudices for the vaccines and against early therapeutics and preventative medicine.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/rand-p ... ccine-bias

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:18 am

And this...

NYC is easily the most Vaxxed and controlled city in the country. Lockdowns and vax and mask mandates are unprecedented.


https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2021/12/27/nearly-30-of-new-covid-cases-in-america-came-from-one-city-n1544735 wrote:Nearly 30% of New COVID Cases in America Came From One City

Confirmed cases of COVID-19 are on the rise again due to the omicron variant and its high level of transmissibility. On Dec. 26, 189,714 new cases of COVID-19 were reported. Of those, 54,828 came from New York City. This means that 28.9% of new cases reported for Dec. 26 came from the Big Apple.


“I feel like this story would be framed differently if it were Florida,” noted New York Post columnist Karol Markowitz.

Image

True enough, on Christmas Eve, the Associated Press reported that Florida “broke a record” for new COVID-19 cases in a single day since the start of the pandemic.


I won’t hold my breath for the Associated Press to report on New York City accounting for nearly 30% of new cases in the United States in a single day.

This development comes despite New York Gov. Kathy Hochul’s mask mandate having been in effect since Dec. 13. A vaccine mandate for New York City also took effect on Monday.

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:58 am

Another thing I keep forgetting to mention. There are significant statistical games being played with the data in what they call “unvaccinated.” The vast majority of deaths clearly attributable to the vaccine are within 14 days of the second injection. Coincidentally, you aren’t generally “counted” as vaccinated for 14 days following “full” vaccination. There is actually a heightened vulnerability to infection in those 14 days as well as risk of spread. #demonic

So many of these intubated Covid patients that are "called" unvaccinated could well be vaccinated.


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Homer
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by Homer » Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:44 pm

Darin,
The vast majority of deaths clearly attributable to the vaccine are within 14 days of the second injection.
That statement sounds like a lot of deaths but I never hear of any deaths attributed to the vaccine. Could you share with us the information such as the percent of the vaccinated who die, total deaths from the vaccine, and your source? Were the deaths due to allergic reaction? What is the cause of these deaths?

If you consider us octogenarians a certain percent in any two week period are going to die regardless of whether they receive a vaccine or not.
The CDC’s website says, ‘Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. This is because the U.S. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after a COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause.

Furthermore, a review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines, says the CDC.

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darinhouston
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Re: Christians and the Covid Vaccine

Post by darinhouston » Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:15 pm

Homer wrote:
Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:44 pm
Darin,
The vast majority of deaths clearly attributable to the vaccine are within 14 days of the second injection.
That statement sounds like a lot of deaths but I never hear of any deaths attributed to the vaccine. Could you share with us the information such as the percent of the vaccinated who die, total deaths from the vaccine, and your source? Were the deaths due to allergic reaction? What is the cause of these deaths?

If you consider us octogenarians a certain percent in any two week period are going to die regardless of whether they receive a vaccine or not.
The CDC’s website says, ‘Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. This is because the U.S. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after a COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause.

Furthermore, a review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines, says the CDC.
I'll be on the lookout for sources for you - it is widely reported by epidemiologists and virologists I have found trustworthy. (the CDC is NOT)

What's more important (in my opinion) considering the ridiculous way status and causation has been tracked and "with Covid" and "from Covid" is such a slippery statistic... the "all cause mortality" in any country seems to be highly correlated to vaccine rates (e.g., up significantly in highly vaccinated countries). Confounding variables exist, of course, but it seems highly correlated and pretty consistent in various countries with various standards of health, etc.

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