Despot of the Oikas

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darinhouston
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Despot of the Oikas

Post by darinhouston » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:33 pm

Are there any complementarians who have studied 1 Timothy 5:14? In particular, oikodespoteo?


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Homer
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Re: Despot of the Oikas

Post by Homer » Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:15 pm

Darin,

If we grant that the word means "rule over" it seems to me to be irrelevant to the complementarian/egalitarian argument given that the context clearly points to the subject of widows.

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darinhouston
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Re: Despot of the Oikas

Post by darinhouston » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:22 pm

Homer wrote:Darin,

If we grant that the word means "rule over" it seems to me to be irrelevant to the complementarian/egalitarian argument given that the context clearly points to the subject of widows.
Interesting. I didn’t realize there were translations that referred to widows. Young women is what I’ve seen. And this is a verse commonly used to defeat the idea that the man is to be the leader of the home.


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Homer
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Re: Despot of the Oikas

Post by Homer » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:27 pm

Darin,

I overlooked something in 5:14:

1 Timothy 5:14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
14. Therefore, I want younger widows to get married, bear children, keep house, and give the enemy no occasion for reproach


The word translated "younger", the Grk. neoteras, is translated correctly but "widows" is not in the Greek text, it is simply inferred from the context as vs. 3-16 has "widows" in eight places. "Keep house" seems to be a bit of a stretch as a translation of oikodespotein; I have seen some versions have "guide" or "manage", but it is literally "rule over". I would say "manage" is the likely meaning, but the Greek word only appears once in the NT (There is a word for that but it escapes me - 80 years is my excuse.), so we have no other examples to guide us.

Years ago I managed the maintenance department in a large industrial facility. I "ruled over" that department yet the Area Vice President/Mill Manager ruled over me, if that is a good analogy of the Husband/wife relationship.

I would say the passage should be understood in the light of 1 Peter 3:1-6:

1 Peter 3 1-6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

1. In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2. as they observe your chaste and ]respectful behavior. 3. Your adornment must not be merely external—braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; 4. but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. 5. For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; 6. just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord (Kurios), and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.


My wife and I have been married 60+ years. She is definitely the "ruler of the house" in that I defer almost all decisions about the home to her, but I still have a veto. There is hardly a part of the house I have not remodeled since I retired long ago. She is "the decider" about how she wants things done. We are complementarian all the way.

As the passage in 1 Peter indicates, the relationship is a voluntary one.

Remembered the word(s) :D Hapax legomenon
Last edited by Homer on Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Paidion
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Re: Despot of the Oikas

Post by Paidion » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:34 pm

Yes, the Greek word "νεωτερας" simply means "the younger." It may refer to "the younger widows" as many translators suppose. But it may refer only to "the younger women" in general.

The Greek word "οικοδεσποτειν" means "to rule the house." I don't think gainsaying the husband about domestic matters is implied here, but simply her responsibility in managing the house.
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