Second Commandment

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darinhouston
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Second Commandment

Post by darinhouston » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:30 pm

NASB wrote:“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
So, how is the imagery of the Trinity not such an image?

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christopher
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Re: Second Commandment

Post by christopher » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:49 pm

Hi Darin,

Just curious. What does an image of the Trinity look like and how does it compare with a graven image (carved idol)?

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darinhouston
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Re: Second Commandment

Post by darinhouston » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:00 am

christopher wrote:Hi Darin,

Just curious. What does an image of the Trinity look like and how does it compare with a graven image (carved idol)?
This is layman's concordance theology, so I know I'm on shaky ground here, but I understand the single word פסל pecel is translated "unto thee any graven image" in the KJV (rendered simply image in NASB and idol in other translations), while תמונה tĕmuwnah is translated "or any likeness." תמונה tĕmuwnah appears to be a very general reference to representations or forms or the like contrasted with the very specific pecel which was understood to be the tangible idols that they worshipped.

So, if we're not only to make no "graven" images, but to avoid also any attempt to reduce our understanding of the nature of God to things we're "familiar with" (like interlocking rings etc. that some demoninations use or the many analogies such as sun and rays, etc. to understand further even the conceptual trinitarian construct that's itself mysterious), then why wouldn't the "3 persons" construct itself be considered a conceptual image that is intended to reduce the unknowable essence of God to something we can understand and relate to be contrary with this commandment?

Also, I've never considered it before, but it doesn't actually say image of "God." It says image of "what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth." That's an odd expression, and seems to connote more than just God but also what would have been a broader reference to many things unknown and mysterious to the ancients related to the cosmos.

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steve
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Re: Second Commandment

Post by steve » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:13 am

I doubt if anyone has had thoughts about God of any kind (trinitarian or otherwise) without importing some kind of mental images. Tozer considered that we should not do this, and he might be right, but it is somewhat unavoidable.

When Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel or John the Revelator describe their visions of God on His throne, it brings to our minds very graphic images, not of our own making. I would think that these men, forever afterward, would have had difficulty thinking about God without these visionary images intruding into their thoughts.

When Jesus referred to God as a "Father," it was apparently intended to convey some comparison to real fathers, whom we might be unable to avoid visualizing when we think of the word.

Most importantly, though we do not know what Jesus looked like, I am sure that those who knew Him could never again think of God, and Jesus at His right hand, without actually picturing the man they had known sitting on an actual seat of state next to an older man.

Such mental images may be misleading, if they are not accurate, but I doubt if they are what God had in mind when He forbade the making of carved statues to represent God. For one thing, the mental images are mostly involuntary. Making an idol is a direct act of rebellion against the second commandment.

The command clearly is forbidding the making of an image of any kind of animal, or other object, to stand as a representative for God and to be an object of our worship. The wording does not restrict the subject to things unknown and mysterious, but includes fishes, birds, insects, and very mundane creatures and objects (compare Deut.4:15-18). "You shall not bow down to them..." is clearly the phrase that gives God's intention in the commandment. Otherwise, all forms of visual art: paintings, sculpture—even photography—would be forbidden by this commandment.

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darinhouston
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Re: Second Commandment

Post by darinhouston » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:44 am

Makes sense. It seems this isn't really about images of God in the first place, but instead images of other things that one might substitute for God in their worship -- that maybe 4-6 should be conflated to a single command regarding worshiping "other stuff" in any way in place of the fullness of God as revealed through Scripture in his relation to us.

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