I have been studying theology with some men from church using Grudem's Systematic Theology.
This week's topic is the Trinity.
And I got to wondering about non-Trinitarians (at least non-orthodox)- Oneness Pentecostals, JWs and Mormons.
If we exclude them from being saved based on their view of the Trinity, doesn't that elevate the Trinity to a "must believe" doctrine.
If the traditional view of the Trinity is not essential for salvation, then are they saved?
Are ancient Arians or Socinians saved? Will Arius be in heaven?
I was thinking that no gospel plans or tracts I know of address the Trinity.
Why couldn't JWs and Mormons use the 4 Spiritual Laws or the Romans Road.
If it's not in our gospel presentation, why exclude these folks?
Only Trinitarians Saved?
Re: Only Trinitarians Saved?
I think we often make the mistake of associating 'salvation' with a mental adherence to a certain set of propositions. Jesus, however, seemed much more eager to have people follow him than agree with a handful of creedal points.
In other words, the 'salvation' of the JW, or LDS member, or Oneness Pentecostal is more a question of whether they are following Jesus in their heart and in truth. This is the same standard for JW's, LDS, OP's, Baptists, Wesleyans, Anglicans, Muslim's, Catholics, Hindu's, etc. There is no 'denomination' or even 'religion' that is "IN" when it comes to salvation. Jesus' disciples are "IN" notwithstanding their levels of ignorance.
In other words, the 'salvation' of the JW, or LDS member, or Oneness Pentecostal is more a question of whether they are following Jesus in their heart and in truth. This is the same standard for JW's, LDS, OP's, Baptists, Wesleyans, Anglicans, Muslim's, Catholics, Hindu's, etc. There is no 'denomination' or even 'religion' that is "IN" when it comes to salvation. Jesus' disciples are "IN" notwithstanding their levels of ignorance.
Re: Only Trinitarians Saved?
I was thinking that no gospel plans or tracts I know of address the Trinity.
Why couldn't JWs and Mormons use the 4 Spiritual Laws or the Romans Road.
If it's not in our gospel presentation, why exclude these folks?JohnB5200
I think if Jesus really is your Lord you are saved yet i do wonder if you don't see Jesus as diety could his blood actually be a propitiation for your sins?
Possibly yes because his diety does not depend on how you view his diety but on the fact he is diety, but i still have to admit i'm not certain.
Why couldn't JWs and Mormons use the 4 Spiritual Laws or the Romans Road.
If it's not in our gospel presentation, why exclude these folks?JohnB5200
I think if Jesus really is your Lord you are saved yet i do wonder if you don't see Jesus as diety could his blood actually be a propitiation for your sins?
Possibly yes because his diety does not depend on how you view his diety but on the fact he is diety, but i still have to admit i'm not certain.
Re: Only Trinitarians Saved?
What is "The 4 Spiritual laws" and "The Roman Road"?
How about The Bible Only... I wonder.
How is this related to the thread topic?
How about The Bible Only... I wonder.
How is this related to the thread topic?
Re: Only Trinitarians Saved?
Matt wrote:
Mark 16:15-16 (New King James Version)
15. And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Here we see that something must be believed, and that refusal to believe it will bring condemnation. And what is it? Obviously the gospel must be believed - that which they were to preach. And John informs us:
John 20:30-31 (New King James Version)
30. And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31. but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
And from Paul we learn more from what he says we must confess:
Romans 10:8-11 (New King James Version)
8. But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9. that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
And from Hebrews we learn:
Hebrews 11:6 (New King James Version)
6. But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
So it seems to me there are a few facts that must be believed in order to be saved, without which we can not say anyone can be saved at all today:
1. Jesus is the Christ, God's Son
2. Jesus is Lord
3. God raised Him from the dead, which proves #1 & #2
4. We must believe on Him (trust in Him for our salvation). We can not be saved if our trust is elsewhere.
It should be noted that the facts that need to believed could be, and were in the sermons in scriptures, such that could be learned in a short discourse. Perhaps some can add some more items from the scriptures. I do not think the trinitarian doctrine will be among them, and I say this as a trinitarian.
I believe it is inarguable that there are a few facts that must be believed to be saved. Jesus said as much:I think we often make the mistake of associating 'salvation' with a mental adherence to a certain set of propositions. Jesus, however, seemed much more eager to have people follow him than agree with a handful of creedal points.
Mark 16:15-16 (New King James Version)
15. And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Here we see that something must be believed, and that refusal to believe it will bring condemnation. And what is it? Obviously the gospel must be believed - that which they were to preach. And John informs us:
John 20:30-31 (New King James Version)
30. And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31. but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
And from Paul we learn more from what he says we must confess:
Romans 10:8-11 (New King James Version)
8. But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9. that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
And from Hebrews we learn:
Hebrews 11:6 (New King James Version)
6. But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
So it seems to me there are a few facts that must be believed in order to be saved, without which we can not say anyone can be saved at all today:
1. Jesus is the Christ, God's Son
2. Jesus is Lord
3. God raised Him from the dead, which proves #1 & #2
4. We must believe on Him (trust in Him for our salvation). We can not be saved if our trust is elsewhere.
It should be noted that the facts that need to believed could be, and were in the sermons in scriptures, such that could be learned in a short discourse. Perhaps some can add some more items from the scriptures. I do not think the trinitarian doctrine will be among them, and I say this as a trinitarian.
Re: Only Trinitarians Saved?
Homer,
I agree with your reasoning.
Here is a short list of essentials which expands somewhat on your list but still excludes the Trinity: http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2 ... -included/
1. Belief in God (there is no such thing as an atheistic Christian)
All issues pertaining to the person and work of Christ:
2. Belief in Christ’s deity and humanity (1 John 4:2-3; Rom. 10:9)
3. Belief that you are a sinner in need of God’s mercy (1 John 1:10)
4 Belief that Christ died on the cross and rose bodily from the grave (1 Cor 15:3-4)
5. Belief that faith in Christ is necessary (John 3:16)
To those unfamiliar with the "4 Spiritual Laws," thank you for the reminder that I, like many evangelicals, live in a subculture all our own. Reminds me of when I made a conversational reference to James Dobson and a co-worker said "who's that?" Asking an American evangelical that is like asking a Catholic,"Pope, what's a Pope?"
I agree with your reasoning.
Here is a short list of essentials which expands somewhat on your list but still excludes the Trinity: http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2 ... -included/
1. Belief in God (there is no such thing as an atheistic Christian)
All issues pertaining to the person and work of Christ:
2. Belief in Christ’s deity and humanity (1 John 4:2-3; Rom. 10:9)
3. Belief that you are a sinner in need of God’s mercy (1 John 1:10)
4 Belief that Christ died on the cross and rose bodily from the grave (1 Cor 15:3-4)
5. Belief that faith in Christ is necessary (John 3:16)
To those unfamiliar with the "4 Spiritual Laws," thank you for the reminder that I, like many evangelicals, live in a subculture all our own. Reminds me of when I made a conversational reference to James Dobson and a co-worker said "who's that?" Asking an American evangelical that is like asking a Catholic,"Pope, what's a Pope?"
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darinhouston
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Re: Only Trinitarians Saved?
Since no one's answering the question...
Jill, visit this page and it explains the 4 spiritual laws...
http://www.campuscrusade.com/fourlawseng.htm
It's not the way I would present the gospel, but it's pretty standard fare to explain to a non-Christian what the "fundamentals" of faith in Christ are all about.
Romans' Road is explained here...
http://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-road-salvation.html
It is the use of certain passages of Romans to guide someone down the "path" to understanding the message of salvation in Christ.
Jill, visit this page and it explains the 4 spiritual laws...
http://www.campuscrusade.com/fourlawseng.htm
It's not the way I would present the gospel, but it's pretty standard fare to explain to a non-Christian what the "fundamentals" of faith in Christ are all about.
Romans' Road is explained here...
http://www.gotquestions.org/Romans-road-salvation.html
It is the use of certain passages of Romans to guide someone down the "path" to understanding the message of salvation in Christ.