I spend a great deal of thought contemplating the various Trinitarian formulations and I just can't seem to wrap my head around any of them, seeing the whole "personality" discussion as entirely missing the point.
Anyway, it's Advent, and my son looks up at me during a discussion of Christ's birth in the sermon today and whispers through his precious, delicately cupped hands with the most innocent and joy-filled expressions one can imagine "Dad, God is Jesus isn't He." I fought back the inclination to say "well, it's complicated, son, but yes and no and sort of and no one's quite sure how and in what way" and just smiled and said "yes, He is, son." I don't know how it all works, but this simple yet impossible concept resonates easily in his childlike response.
The Trinity, in perspective
Re: The Trinity, in perspective
When my son was that age, he asked three (very reasonable) questions:
"Is Jesus God?" (I answered "Yes.")
"Is Jesus God's Son?" (Again I answered "Yes.")
"Is God His own Son?" ("It's complicated!")
"Is Jesus God?" (I answered "Yes.")
"Is Jesus God's Son?" (Again I answered "Yes.")
"Is God His own Son?" ("It's complicated!")
Re: The Trinity, in perspective
Wow! Wisdom proceeds from the mouths of babes!
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: The Trinity, in perspective
Darin wrote, quoting his son:
TK
Why do I feel more comfortable saying "Jesus is God" than "God is Jesus?""Dad, God is Jesus isn't He."
TK
Re: The Trinity, in perspective
I once asked my dad,
a working class,
8th grade educated,
King James Bible memorized man . . .
"Dad, do you think Jesus is God?"
"No. God the Father is God. Jesus is the Son of God."
"But don't you think Jesus was divine? and existed before He came down here?"
"Yes."
My father was a trinitarian Pentecostal.
All this stuff was simple . . . to him . . . .
a working class,
8th grade educated,
King James Bible memorized man . . .
"Dad, do you think Jesus is God?"
"No. God the Father is God. Jesus is the Son of God."
"But don't you think Jesus was divine? and existed before He came down here?"
"Yes."
My father was a trinitarian Pentecostal.
All this stuff was simple . . . to him . . . .
Re: The Trinity, in perspective
I'm reminded of something Steve said in a lecture about the trinity. If you'll pardon my way of saying what Steve said, here's The New Revised Gregg Version (a paraphrase).
John 14 (around verse 9ish):
"Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. For verily I say unto thee, that I am of the same, and not of a similar substance as the Father. Got that, boys? Peter? You look confused."
Then Peter answereth unto Him, "Thou art of the same, and not of a different or similar substance as the Father! Right?"
I have insomnia.
Goodnite!
I mean, afternoon!
John 14 (around verse 9ish):
"Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. For verily I say unto thee, that I am of the same, and not of a similar substance as the Father. Got that, boys? Peter? You look confused."
Then Peter answereth unto Him, "Thou art of the same, and not of a different or similar substance as the Father! Right?"
I have insomnia.
Goodnite!
I mean, afternoon!
Re: The Trinity, in perspective
Rick,
I don't remember saying this. I am not even sure what it means. Which lecture are you paraphrasing? Could you transcribe my actual words that you have paraphrased, so that I can let you know whether you are understanding the point I was making or not? Thanks!
I don't remember saying this. I am not even sure what it means. Which lecture are you paraphrasing? Could you transcribe my actual words that you have paraphrased, so that I can let you know whether you are understanding the point I was making or not? Thanks!
Re: The Trinity, in perspective
John 14 (around verse 9ish):
"Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. For verily I say unto thee, that I am of the same, and not of a similar substance as the Father. Got that, boys? Peter? You look confused."
Then Peter answereth unto Him, "Thou art of the same, and not of a different or similar substance as the Father! Right?"
Well call me crazy but it makes sense to me, since if Jesus is the Word of God he is the same substance as the Father (divine & immortal) yet Jesus is not God per se , but more like a part of God.
That's why he is referred to as the Arm of God, Word of God, Logos(mind & reasoning) of God, at the right hand of God etc. Father God is the source and Jesus is in some way which is not revealed , a part of God but not God Almighty , at least IMHO.
"Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. For verily I say unto thee, that I am of the same, and not of a similar substance as the Father. Got that, boys? Peter? You look confused."
Then Peter answereth unto Him, "Thou art of the same, and not of a different or similar substance as the Father! Right?"
Well call me crazy but it makes sense to me, since if Jesus is the Word of God he is the same substance as the Father (divine & immortal) yet Jesus is not God per se , but more like a part of God.
That's why he is referred to as the Arm of God, Word of God, Logos(mind & reasoning) of God, at the right hand of God etc. Father God is the source and Jesus is in some way which is not revealed , a part of God but not God Almighty , at least IMHO.
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darinhouston
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Re: The Trinity, in perspective
Actually, now that I think about it, I think that's actually what he said.TK wrote:Darin wrote, quoting his son:
Why do I feel more comfortable saying "Jesus is God" than "God is Jesus?""Dad, God is Jesus isn't He."
TK
Re: The Trinity, in perspective
Well, regardless of how he phrased it, if the proposition that "Jesus is God" is true then it follows that "God is Jesus" must also be true. That is what queases me out a little. I think it must be because God is more than Jesus.
It's almost like Father, the Son and the HS are 3 pieces of a pie, the whole of which is the one true God, but that the 3 pieces taken separately are stll God. But piece 1 is different from pieces 2 and 3. And one must also wonder if the Father piece is not somewhat larger than the other 2 pieces.
Nope, I can't quite grasp the Trinity yet.
TK
It's almost like Father, the Son and the HS are 3 pieces of a pie, the whole of which is the one true God, but that the 3 pieces taken separately are stll God. But piece 1 is different from pieces 2 and 3. And one must also wonder if the Father piece is not somewhat larger than the other 2 pieces.
Nope, I can't quite grasp the Trinity yet.
TK