I have no desire to be anywhere near as polemical as some others may be, and with all due respect Brenden (I hope it's okay to call you that), I don't think it's entirely fair to call a Trinitarian confused just because they can't articulate the truth well, or to use that as some indication of the doctrine's untruth. I do think Trinitarians (like anyone! ) can be belligerent and unreasonable, but you should no more classify them all like that, than in any other case. I mean, if you really have never seen a humble, respectful Trinitarian, that truly brings as much sorrow to me, as an atheist that never met a humble, respectful Christian. I feel it's just a bit unfair to cast this doctrine in the light of the misbehavior of some of its adherents you may have encountered. After all, we could use your same logic for many other doctrines such as atonement or justification, because these things are complicated and nuanced. If someone boils the Gospel down to Jesus loves me, does that make their theology inherently suspect, or if they cannot, in a moment, give a complete clear, concise, and cogent explanation of their soteriology that they are somehow confused and their doctrine inferior? Or if some street evangelist yells at passers by that they are sinners going to hell, does his impoliteness make them any less sinners?TheEditor wrote:I am not changing from using the term "confusion" to "cannot understand". I have always felt that any honest trinitarian will admit they "cannot understand" it.
I know many do see the Trinitarian doctrine this way, but I find the idea that understanding the doctrine of the Trinity is completely vital to salvation, as preposterous and unscriptural. There is no hint of it anywhere in the Bible that you must have a correct view of the Trinity and you have every right to question such a belief. But does that, in itself, disprove the Trinity? Not any more than people who believe baptism is essential for salvation nullify the fact that the doctrine really is a sacrament of grace. If you believe all that Scripture teaches about Christ, I do think you will find adding up the sum of those things equals something surprisingly god-like, but as long as you can confess those truths with me, you are a brother irregardless—as if either of us could claim to have a complete understanding of exactly who the Father, Holy Spirit, or Christ are. Even though I see evidence for their individuality and divinity, I wouldn't even classify Modalists as anything near a damnable heresy, as if we had to have so precise an understanding of such a great mystery. I hope you don't continue to find all Trinitarians so belligerent, nor write off the doctrine simply because some adherents have perhaps not carried the truth with the nobility and greatness that it, itself engrosses. I hope you can at least see that, from my perspective, I did not make this doctrine "out of thin air" but feel it derives from Scripture itself, and I would treat you, or any sincere Unitarian (in the doctrinal sense) with all the respect in the world.If you believe they are, then you should view me as anathema and have no further conversations with me.